OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

1) Landlords will eventually pay to install EV charging ports because it will make economic sense for them to do so. As EV cars become more popular, the lack of charging facilities will be like a lack of high speed internet -- it will reduce the marketability of their apartment.

2) The average price of a new car in the U.S. is around $47k. The average price of a new EV car is about $65k, so they are not even close to triple or quadruple.

3) The installation of charging ports in apartments would likely have only a small effect on rent levels, as the costs can be amortized over several years.

Uh huh... They're building some massive apartment complexes in my area and none of them have charging stations; and this is California. I bet it costs about $10-20K each to put a charging station in an open parking stall. Then there's maintenance and billing costs... Heck, BART put in a new parking lot in my local station and they said each parking spot costs $20K (no charging station, just asphalt). Can the average apartment dweller afford an EV when they are living paycheck to paycheck and an ICE powered car is significantly less?

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Uh huh... They're building some massive apartment complexes in my area and none of them have charging stations; and this is California.

As stated, they will eventually pay to install chargers. At present, when only 1% of the cars on the road are EV, it may not make sense to install them.

I bet it costs about $10-20K each to put a charging station in an open parking stall. Then there's maintenance and billing costs...

It doesn't have to be a charging station like a public facility. It can be as simple as what people have in their homes, with assigned parking spaces.

Originally Posted by MikeD

Heck, BART put in a new parking lot in my local station and they said each parking spot costs $20K (no charging station, just asphalt).

What does the construction cost of a parking spot at a BART station have to do with EV chargers in an apartment building?

[Spaghetti Legs]

The 2 Air BnB apartments I have stayed at in LA had dozens of EV chargers in their parking garages. Way more than EVs plugged into them.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

1) Landlords will eventually pay to install EV charging ports because it will make economic sense for them to do so. As EV cars become more popular, the lack of charging facilities will be like a lack of high speed internet -- it will reduce the marketability of their apartment.

2) The average price of a new car in the U.S. is around $47k. The average price of a new EV car is about $65k, so they are not even close to triple or quadruple.

3) The installation of charging ports in apartments would likely have only a small effect on rent levels, as the costs can be amortized over several years.

There have also been community-based efforts to install 'solar carports'--our local environmental group has been active in promoting this idea. I believe (if I remember the pitch) there are grants available for these sorts of installations.

New York State also has an active program of support and subsidies for business owners and landlords to install charging points, as well as local government. I have not dug in--but the verbiage says "large portion or sometimes all" costs will be covered by subsidies.

https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/All-Progr...ation-Programs

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Unfortunately, CARB states are saying that in 2035, you can't buy a new car unless it's a full EV.

That's very nice and the stuff of political sound bites...12 years...how many administrations? I get a kick out of these. Colorado says they want to be 100% renewable electric in 15 years or so...looks and sounds good but......

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Statistics on how people use their cars support the notion that EVs COULD work for most people.

Of COURSE but the long pole in the tent(what holds it all up) is CONVENIENCE.
I could probably go with ZERO car of any kind but why would I?

I could walk those 6 blocks to the grocery, and carry 3-4 bags back, when it's 3 degrees outside, like it was yesterday, and then do it again...

I could probably get to my grand daughter's house to nanny w/o a car...be tough to get them to softball practice but with enough time and $, I could do that but...why would I?

I could make due with an EV but it would be......harder, more time consuming, less convenient, way more expensive...

The question isn't if it's possible or not but how to make EVs as convenient, easy as an ICE.

You have a choice based on your need and wants. ICE, HEV, PHEV, EV - no one needs to be convinced to buy anything.

I don't need a F-150 or Sprinter. Would be cool to have but whatever.
If you don't want a EV, don't get one.
Just get the best tool for the job and ideally, that you enjoy using too.

Yup, kinda like the helmet or disc brake thread...getting criticized for not making the same decisions as somebody else. "Of COURSE and EV will work for you", 'get with the program'(my comment but that's what it feels like with 'some')...

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Of COURSE but the long pole in the tent(what holds it all up) is CONVENIENCE.
I could probably go with ZERO car of any kind but why would I?

I could walk those 6 blocks to the grocery, and carry 3-4 bags back, when it's 3 degrees outside, like it was yesterday, and then do it again...

I could probably get to my grand daughter's house to nanny w/o a car...be tough to get them to softball practice but with enough time and $, I could do that but...why would I?

I could make due with an EV but it would be......harder, more time consuming, less convenient, way more expensive...

The question isn't if it's possible or not but how to make EVs as convenient, easy as an ICE.


Yup, kinda like the helmet or disc brake thread...getting criticized for not making the same decisions as somebody else. "Of COURSE and EV will work for you", 'get with the program'(my comment but that's what it feels like with 'some')...

For nearly all driving within probably a 75-100 mile radius there’s very little difference in daily life for the EV owner versus an ICE car owner. The main difference is charging at home vs. going to a gas pump weekly or however often is needed. I just plug in and my car is ready to go when I need it. Without home or some other form of location charging option an EV currently doesn’t make nearly as much sense.

You’ve stated many times that you’re good with your Accord hybrid. So keep driving it! EVs aren’t for you.

This discussion is aimed at those who are interested, not to try to convince others who aren’t.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Uh huh... They're building some massive apartment complexes in my area and none of them have charging stations; and this is California. I bet it costs about $10-20K each to put a charging station in an open parking stall. Then there's maintenance and billing costs... Heck, BART put in a new parking lot in my local station and they said each parking spot costs $20K (no charging station, just asphalt). Can the average apartment dweller afford an EV when they are living paycheck to paycheck and an ICE powered car is significantly less?

In Boulder, along 30th street, it's turning into a 'concrete canyon' with all the brand new, 4 story(Boulder height laws, might be 5 stories) new apartment buildings with 'largely' unoccupied retail first floors. A lot have underground parking, some do not and NONE have EV charging stations.....

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by saab2000

For nearly all driving within probably a 75-100 mile radius there’s very little difference in daily life for the EV owner versus an ICE car owner. The main difference is charging at home vs. going to a gas pump weekly or however often is needed. I just plug in and my car is ready to go when I need it. Without home or some other form of location charging option an EV currently doesn’t make nearly as much sense.

You’ve stated many times that you’re good with your Accord hybrid. So keep driving it! EVs aren’t for you.

This discussion is aimed at those who are interested, not to try to convince others who aren’t.

Except the not insignificant $ investment for the car and home charger(which I think is against the HOA where I live)....

My son has the Honda Accord Hybrid, I have a Golf Sport Wagen, 4 motion, 'S', paid for.

Not exactly...

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by saab2000

For nearly all driving within probably a 75-100 mile radius there’s very little difference in daily life for the EV owner versus an ICE car owner. The main difference is charging at home vs. going to a gas pump weekly or however often is needed. I just plug in and my car is ready to go when I need it. Without home or some other form of location charging option an EV currently doesn’t make nearly as much sense.

You’ve stated many times that you’re good with your Accord hybrid. So keep driving it! EVs aren’t for you.

This discussion is aimed at those who are interested, not to try to convince others who aren’t.

Fine with me. But, the governor of California and other politicians are mandating EV use by law. In just over ten years, all of California will not be able to buy a gas powered vehicle, by decree. No choice.

[corkycalvin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Fine with me. But, the governor of California and other politicians are mandating EV use by law. In just over ten years, all of California will not be able to buy a gas powered vehicle, by decree. No choice.

I’m pretty sure the ban of ICE in California will move up the courts and maybe end up in the Supreme Court. Does the governor have that much power to implement a ban? In California, a car is needed outside of urban areas and most people can’t afford EV’s. Grabbing my popcorn to see how this plays out

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by saab2000

For nearly all driving within probably a 75-100 mile radius there’s very little difference in daily life for the EV owner versus an ICE car owner. The main difference is charging at home vs. going to a gas pump weekly or however often is needed. I just plug in and my car is ready to go when I need it. Without home or some other form of location charging option an EV currently doesn’t make nearly as much sense.

You’ve stated many times that you’re good with your Accord hybrid. So keep driving it! EVs aren’t for you.

This discussion is aimed at those who are interested, not to try to convince others who aren’t.

Sure, for the low range driver, this will work, somewhat. But, states and regions that depend on drive in tourism will see their economies wilt. I drive up to Vermont from Ct. to ski, a 220 mile trip in winter, and I think it's pretty well documented that batteries hate the cold, and it gets cold up there (well, not this season, but...). I couldn't imagine what it would be like for the thousands who arrive on Friday night in a storm. Will they all line up for a charger after driving four hours? Vermont is a poor state, and the tourist industry has been slowly dying from cheap air fare to western mountains. This would be like a spike in the heart. And that's the relatively dense Northeast. Furgetabout the wide open spaces in the west.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by corkycalvin

I’m pretty sure the ban of ICE in California will move up the courts and maybe end up in the Supreme Court. Does the governor have that much power to implement a ban? In California, a car is needed outside of urban areas and most people can’t afford EV’s. Grabbing my popcorn to see how this plays out

Everyone knows he wants to run for President. This was an early campaign speech. May go the way of Jerry Brown's high speed train from nowhere to nowhere.

[wkeller79]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

As stated, they will eventually pay to install chargers. At present, when only 1% of the cars on the road are EV, it may not make sense to install them.

It doesn't have to be a charging station like a public facility. It can be as simple as what people have in their homes, with assigned parking spaces.

I don't think this will come to fruition in places like Manhattan, where we own a home (parlor level condo). Luckily, I have an old truck that is paid off, so I can afford a parking garage. But if I had to make a car payment with full insurance coverage, there's no way I'd be able to afford off-street parking as well.

I reckon most people here are in this situation. Having a car is a luxury.
Having a parking garage spot is a super duper luxury. There's not many parking garages I've seen here with assigned spots either.

My gf and I would love to get an EV, which would be a lovely upgrade for our 20 yr old truck, as 95% of our weekend driving is to Northern NJ & lower Hudson Valley for trail running & biking... so we aren't worried about range. The entry price is just too steep. But even if we were to stretch a bit and get an EV, we'd be screwed on the weekdays (opposite side parking) and charging end of things, since we couldn't swing a dedicated garage with charge port.

[Dave]

If only a 40A breaker is needed for charger, it's no more difficult to install than a large air conditioning unit, but in areas that already have brown outs, it's like every EV owner now has a second AC unit running all night. That's got to cause grid problems.

I have natural gas furnace and water heater, but those are now considered evil devices that are causing global warming. My rural electric company has incentives to change to a heat pump and electric water heater.