The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread - Page 26

tomato coupe · #**376** 10-21-2020, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrisond

okay - so name the ratios you get between those two speeds then with chorus, in km/h, gain ratios or whatever. How do you get 8 unique steps that aren't duplicating others on the big ring?

32/19, 32/17, 32/16, 32/15, 32/14, 32/13, 32/12, 48/17, 48/16

(Oops, that's 9 steps.)

oldpotatoe · #**377** 10-21-2020, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Since some asked about it recently, here's a list.

Freehub body/Wheel availability update:
-- Campagnolo: complete wheels, now. Spare parts, end of the year.
-- Fulcrum: complete wheels, now. Spare parts, end of the year.
-- DT Swiss: complete wheels- OEM, now. Hubs, now. Spare parts, now. (They listed October 5th as the release date but can't find any right now.)
-- White Industries: hubs, first week of January. Spare parts, first week of January.
-- Hunt: complete wheels, January 10th thru 24th. Spare parts, January 10 thru 24th.
-- Roval: complete wheels, now. Spare parts, TBA
-- Aivee: hubs, Thanksgiving. Spare parts, Thanksgiving.
-- 3T: complete wheels, end of the year. Spare parts, end of the year.
-- Chris King: TBA. They haven't even agreed to make them.
-- Reynolds: complete wheels, TBA. Spare parts, TBA
-- ENVE: complete wheels(DT hubs), November. Spare parts(DT hubs), November.
-- Zipp: complete wheels, TBA. Spare parts, TBA
-- Mavic: TBA.

This info is based on the latest I was told. Of course things may change.

I think it should be pointed out(and correct me if I'm wrong)..if the rear hub has a Campagnolo 9/10/11/12s FHB on it now, the new N3W FHB slides right on..and can be used with 9/10/11/12s or remove that outer part and use the 13s..I know that's what Campag rear hubs can do.

Will the other hub makers, like DT, have a 'convertible' FHB or a dedicated 13s only FHB??

morrisond · #**378** 10-21-2020, 07:51 AM

You are making the same argument that I made a while back here or on another forum. Once I thought about it I realized I would never use the gears like you are proposing.

So you are going to ride around in your Small Ring 95% of the time and leave everything Below 48/17 on the big ring? Plus you then have to get down to 34/12 accurately in a reasonable amount of time? Good luck with that without EPS and have fun cross chaining in 34/12 and 13 a lot. Most of us wouldn't shift off the big ring until we got to 48/22 or 48/25 and almost none of us would spend much time in 34/12 - 34/13. Shifting out of 48/22 or 48/25 we might drop down 2-3 gears in the back to compensate. Going the other way most of us would be long gone at about 34/14 and ignore 34/12-13.

Think about how you actually ride and what is your personal speed range 95% of the time and what gears you actually use. EKAR really is not that big of handicap. Maybe one or two gears and that's it. In exchange you get a lot simpler solution.

The combination(s) that do intrigue me would be a two chainring easy to change solution which I believe the RD has the capacity to handle without changing the chain.

42 10-44 for normal unloaded riding which gives you the same as 46/11 on top and about the same as 32/34 on the bottom.

Then swap out for a 38 in front for loaded touring/really steep stuff giving you a gear range below 32/34.

saab2000 · #**379** 10-21-2020, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrisond

Think about how you actually ride and what is your personal speed range 95% of the time and what gears you actually use. EKAR really is not that big of handicap. Maybe one or two gears and that's it. In exchange you get a lot simpler solution.

I agree with this. By bringing it to 13 gears they get way closer to duplicating the real, usable range of a 2x11 system or even a 2x12. Yes, there is a bit lost but mostly at the cross-chaining extremes.

Looking forward to seeing first hand, real world experiences from folks who buy this with their own money. I'm definitely interested.

Dave · #**380** 10-21-2020, 08:36 AM

What I've read says the Ekar RD has a 34T wrap capacity. That's the total wrap of a 10-44, plus there has to be a little extra to allow for chain stay lengths that rarely calculate to a perfectly even number of chain length inches.

A 4T change requires a 1 inch change in chain length, so changing the chain ring will most often require a different chain length. It's not a big deal, if a quick link is used. 2T change might work with one chain length.

The total range on my bike with a 46/30 crank and 10-36 12 speed cassette is 552%. That's significantly more than 440 or 467% with Ekar. I have 15 distinctly different gear ratios. I have more top gear and more low gear. I don't ride gravel, just road. Someone claimed that my setup has 18 different speeds, but only if you make some really stupid shifts across 6 or 7 sprockets.

Rather than bicker and nitpick, buy what you think will work for your terrain and abilities and forget about what others are doing.

benb · #**381** 10-21-2020, 09:22 AM

Does Ekar mean something in Italian?

It feels like Ekar is a name they would have to license from Kodak. Maybe they should have named it Ekar 400.

bumknees · #**382** 10-21-2020, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave

rather than bicker and nitpick, buy what you think will work for your terrain and abilities and forget about what others are doing.

+1

Velocipede · #**383** 10-21-2020, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I think it should be pointed out(and correct me if I'm wrong)..if the rear hub has a Campagnolo 9/10/11/12s FHB on it now, the new N3W FHB slides right on..and can be used with 9/10/11/12s or remove that outer part and use the 13s..I know that's what Campag rear hubs can do.

Will the other hub makers, like DT, have a 'convertible' FHB or a dedicated 13s only FHB??

From what I've seen and heard, they are making a "EKAR" freehub body. So it won't be convertible like the Campy one. At least the DT and White ones are not. Now, Aivee told me there were going to do the convertible one. I'll see when they are done though. The design manufacturers get has the dimensions for the adaptor piece. So they CAN do it. Just a matter if they will.

So, to the question of the existing Campy 9/10/11/12 body... Campy is making 2 EKAR freehub bodies. One with the current ratchet/pawl system and one with the EKAR system. The new EKAR design on the Shamal Carbon Disc wheels, it's the 36th engagement and it's larger diameter. The older/current version is smaller and I think 30th? I can't remember. So they they will have 2 SKU's when they are available. But yes, all you need to do is remove the adaptor to use 13 on the N3W freehub or put it on for the 9/10/11/12 cassettes. But they aren't 100% cross compatible between the older/newer styles.

Velocipede · #**384** 10-21-2020, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benb

Does Ekar mean something in Italian?

It feels like Ekar is a name they would have to license from Kodak. Maybe they should have named it Ekar 400.

It's the name of the mountain near the Campy factory that has an observatory on it. Cima means top if that's anything. The mountain is called Cima Ekar. In some languages, Ekar means acre or acres.

morrisond · #**385** 10-21-2020, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

What I've read says the Ekar RD has a 34T wrap capacity. That's the total wrap of a 10-44, plus there has to be a little extra to allow for chain stay lengths that rarely calculate to a perfectly even number of chain length inches.

A 4T change requires a 1 inch change in chain length, so changing the chain ring will most often require a different chain length. It's not a big deal, if a quick link is used. 2T change might work with one chain length.

The total range on my bike with a 46/30 crank and 10-36 12 speed cassette is 552%. That's significantly more than 440 or 467% with Ekar. I have 15 distinctly different gear ratios. I have more top gear and more low gear. I don't ride gravel, just road. Someone claimed that my setup has 18 different speeds, but only if you make some really stupid shifts across 6 or 7 sprockets.

Rather than bicker and nitpick, buy what you think will work for your terrain and abilities and forget about what others are doing.

That was me on the 18 speeds! Yes two chains may be necessary when doing a big swap on the front - and probably the better solution than tinkering with the B screw.

It would probably not be that frequent anyways and a great time to clean your chain - made easier by the quicklink - Two chains means longer lived very expensive casssette as well. Who wouldn't clean there chain when swapping the front ring and heading out on a big ride?

sparky33 · #**386** 10-21-2020, 10:45 AM