Campagnolo out of the World Tour

[reuben]

Originally Posted by ldamelio

For better or worse, I don't think being on the Pro Tour matters to them from a marketing perspective, especially since their last team was not grabbing headline wins.

I thought UAE was on Campy last year or the year before, am I wrong (again)?

(search, find, read...) OK, I'm not crazy. It looks like UAE dropped Campy this year.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uae...psets-in-2023/

[Mark McM]

This news appears to be following the same trajectory as Campagnolo's recently released Super Record WRL group. Many commented that the SR WRL group would not be well suited to pro racing, particularly the gearing choices. It seems clear that while in the past, Campagnolo was particularly aimed at the racing market (or rather the wannabe racer market*), but now they appear to be aiming at a different market, positioning themselves as a luxury brand. The Record and Super Record groups have always been expensive (as compared to their competitors), but Campagnolo always had more affordable groups such as Mirage, Veloce, Athena & Daytona. So less affluent consumers could afford Campagnolo's work-a-day products while still aspiring toward their premier products. But now they've dropped all their lower level groups, and only produce exclusive, high-end groups. This strategy can work for things like watches and cars, but I'm not sure it will work for bicycle components, which are already a niche product. Campagnolo appears to be settling for a niche of a niche. Luxury product brands rely on a lot of advertising and product placement to generate demand, but where is Campagnolo going to get this exposure? The primary place for advertising and exposure in the bicycle world is (high level) racing, but Campagnolo appears to be walking away from this. Even if Campagnolo currently appeals to a certain portion of the market due to their past glory, they may face the same issue that the Harley Davidson motorcycles and the Chevy Corvette are facing, where sales taper off as their customers get older and die off.


*Many high performance sports products rely on selling to wannabes. Participants at the highest levels by and large are get their equipment through sponsorship deals, provided by manufacturers in hopes that lower level participants aspire to be like those higher level participants (i.e. are wannabes) and subsequently buy lots of the products they see higher level participants using.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

... I'm not sure it will work for bicycle components, which are already a niche product.

With 100 million bikes produced every year, I wouldn't call bicycle components a niche product.

[ldamelio]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

With 100 million bikes produced every year, I wouldn't call bicycle components a niche product.

The overwhelming majority of those are mass market utilitarian or childrens bikes. High end road racing bikes and their attendant groups are a niche within that market.

[trener1]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

*Many high performance sports products rely on selling to wannabes. Participants at the highest levels by and large are get their equipment through sponsorship deals, provided by manufacturers in hopes that lower level participants aspire to be like those higher level participants (i.e. are wannabes) and subsequently buy lots of the products they see higher level participants using.

Like they say in Nascar, Race it on Sunday, sell it on Monday.
That very much holds true in the bike market (despite the many naysayers on this forum)

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

With 100 million bikes produced every year, I wouldn't call bicycle components a niche product.

It is true that even in the car-centric USA, there are more new bikes sold each year than new cars. But most of the bikes produced world-wide are low-end and/or children's bikes, categories that Campagnolo has not competed in. But even in the categories Campagnolo does compete in, they are just a small part of the market, and they seem to be aiming at being an even a smaller portion of that market.

[saab2000]

I think the Harley Davidson and Corvette analogies are spot on. The customer base is aging and dying.

The “youth” in cycling, whatever that means, have mostly probably never even heard of Campagnolo. And youth might mean people new to the sport.

I did a gravel event last year and lined up with a guy riding Ekar but that’s a real rarity.

Their absence from the World Tour may not mean much to them. But it’s an iconic brand and it’s a bummer to see them less and less relevant in pro cycling.

There’s a Time dealer close to where I live. I went in to discuss the Time gravel bikes and boy did they get nervous when I mentioned that I was interested in the model with Ekar. They actively steered me away from it, which isn’t how to win a customer, especially when I don’t need the brick and mortar store as much as they need bodies walking through their doors. Anyway, I digress, but it’s Campagnolo related. Do any top shelf gravel racers ride Ekar, either sponsored or sel-purchased?

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by ldamelio

The overwhelming majority of those are mass market utilitarian or childrens bikes. High end road racing bikes and their attendant groups are a niche within that market.

Sure, high-end road racing components may be a niche among bike components, but the statement was that bicycle components are a niche.

[rain dogs]

A lot of overreactions.

IF (cause this news is also premature) they are absent from the world tour for this year, it's less than ideal, but there are many more professional teams than World Tour.

In 2017, 2018 and maybe one more year? I don't remember... Sram only sponsored 1 WorldTour team. But they chose to sponsor other professional teams and not focus on World Tour.

The reality is Shimano owns the World Tour space because their components are so much cheaper when you start thinking of outfitting an entire team. Sure, they have their teams that they pay, but that's only 4? 5? The rest buy their stuff. Maybe Campagnolo finds a fit and swoops in and pays one of those teams if the results/partnership makes sense.

Campagnolo is never going to be able to outbid Shimano or Sram, so that leaves the teams that likely aren't getting a lot of results anyway. Campagnolo can get a lot more feedback/product development working with more small teams for a year or two.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

Campagnolo is never going to be able to outbid Shimano or Sram, so that leaves the teams that likely aren't getting a lot of results anyway. Campagnolo can get a lot more feedback/product development working with more small teams for a year or two.

Out of 18 World Tour teams, Shimano directly sponsors 4 and SRAM directly sponsors 3. How hard would Campagnolo have to bid to get one of the other 11?

Although equipment manufacturers can get some useful product feedback from racing teams, this is largely overstated. The main benefit for sponsoring teams is for advertising/marketing purposes. And besides, product feedback focused on the needs of of high level racing teams may mean little towards the average consumer.

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Out of 18 World Tour teams, Shimano directly sponsors 4 and SRAM directly sponsors 3. How hard would Campagnolo have to bid to get one of the other 11?

Although equipment manufacturers can get some useful product feedback from racing teams, this is largely overstated. The main benefit for sponsoring teams is for advertising/marketing purposes. And besides, product feedback focused on the needs of of high level racing teams may mean little towards the average consumer.

It's in what I wrote...

How hard would Rotor have to bid to have one? How hard would Sram have had to bid in 2017 to have 2 or 3? Or Campagnolo last year to have 2 or 3? There's obviously more to it than you think or 9,10,11....12? teams wouldn't be paying for their groupsets.

Again... maybe they do, maybe they don't. We're still in 2023.

[shinomaster]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I think the Harley Davidson and Corvette analogies are spot on. The customer base is aging and dying.

The “youth” in cycling, whatever that means, have mostly probably never even heard of Campagnolo. And youth might mean people new to the sport.

I did a gravel event last year and lined up with a guy riding Ekar but that’s a real rarity.

Their absence from the World Tour may not mean much to them. But it’s an iconic brand and it’s a bummer to see them less and less relevant in pro cycling.

There’s a Time dealer close to where I live. I went in to discuss the Time gravel bikes and boy did they get nervous when I mentioned that I was interested in the model with Ekar. They actively steered me away from it, which isn’t how to win a customer, especially when I don’t need the brick and mortar store as much as they need bodies walking through their doors. Anyway, I digress, but it’s Campagnolo related. Do any top shelf gravel racers ride Ekar, either sponsored or sel-purchased?

Why did they steer you away from Ekar? I think campy lost its way when they released super record in 2009. Having three really solid groups, Record Chorus and Centaur made sense and all were well done and had a sensible place and purpose. I agree that young racers coming along have no one to look up to in the peloton riding Campy. I would longingly stare at the bikes pros were riding in Winning magazine when i was in college, and I really wanted a Campy equipped bike one day. All the rich old farts currently riding super record will gone in a few decades. Who will take their place? This reminds me to hord a 12 speed rim brake groupset.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by shinomaster

Why did they steer you away from Ekar? I think campy lost its way when they released super record in 2009. Having three really solid groups, Record Chorus and Centaur made sense and all were well done and had a sensible place and purpose. I agree that young racers coming along have no one to look up to in the peloton riding Campy. I would longingly stare at the bikes pros were riding in Winning magazine when i was in college, and I really wanted a Campy equipped bike one day. All the rich old farts currently riding super record will gone in a few decades. Who will take their place? This reminds me to hord a 12 speed rim brake groupset.

They told me it takes unique tools and is hard to work on and hard to get parts for. I used to use Campagnolo and am comfortable with it even though I currently don’t use any.

Their preferred brand is SRAM. I’m agnostic on this but their attempt at steering my purchase because they assume I don’t know my way around Campagnolo was a bit weak.

Not a huge deal because I wasn’t ready to buy one but I know they’re a dealer and I wanted to see one in person. The one they had was a customer’s bike so I couldn’t ride it but they let me stand over it and get a bit of a feel for it. Time bikes are nice, as are many bikes.

I kind of like the idea of 1x13 and hear mostly positive things about Ekar.

[bicycletricycle]

I guess there are plenty of examples of luxury sports brands that are not represented in their associated sport. Still feels strange. I guess they just didn’t want to pay the sponsorship fees. I guess they will still sponsor smaller Italian teams?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by saab2000

They told me it takes unique tools and is hard to work on and hard to get parts for. I used to use Campagnolo and am comfortable with it even though I currently don’t use any.

Their preferred brand is SRAM. I’m agnostic on this but their attempt at steering my purchase because they assume I don’t know my way around Campagnolo was a bit weak.

We've heard claims about Campagnolo being harder to work on for decades, but the reality is that it is no harder, it is just different. As far as getting parts, one of the biggest concerns is not that they are hard to get, it is that it is easy for consumers to get them inexpensively. SRAM (and Shimano) exerts tighter control over pricing and distribution, so it is difficult for consumers to get a bargain by going around the bike shops, whereas consumers can often find Campagnolo components at lower cost than from the distributors that bike shops go through.