First Road Bike Ruminations - point me in the right direction

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by nmrt

I disagree. In my experience tire pressure and volume does not trump frame material when it is made by excellent Ti bike manufacturers. A nice riding bike (rim brakes and 1 1/8 HT) like the Merlin Extralight or a Serotta Legend or a Bingham Built or a Desalvo will ride spectacularly well with 25 mm tires.

A well made Ti bike is a well made Ti bike. It's quality will shine even with 25 mm tires. Yes, will the bike ride more plush with 30 mm tires. Possibly. But would I desire that plushness? For me, no. The bike will already be plush enough with 25 mm tires.

25mm tires + 200 lbs + riding in East Bay hills = 🤬

[acorn_user]

This may be a bit counter intuitive, but I would look for a recent (or new) Specialized Allez. These are really nice riding bikes, and you can probably find one with Tiagra or 105. I had one a few years ago, and I just bought one for my son. I really enjoy how they ride.

Once you start to get used to riding a road bike, you may change what you like. If you only spent $1000, you won't mind as much

[Baron Blubba]

Originally Posted by br0qn

thanks for weighing in!

i hear you there but i think part of the comfort equation has to take into account the bike being overbuilt for disc brakes and deep/stiff carbon wheelsets, no? in otherwords, a 700x28 tire on a plush steel rim brake frame can ride comparably or more comfortable even(?) than 30's on a super stiff frame with super stiff wheels.

This is pure grumpy old man myth on so many levels. I've owned dozens of bikes, rim and disc, and ridden dozens more. My current main ride is a nicely built Ritchey Logic, rim brake version. It's a great bike, no doubt. However, it is objectively less of a smooth ride than any of the modern carbon bikes, rim or disc, shallow rimmed or deep-rimmed (I have experience up to 65mm deep) that I've owned in the past 10 years or so. These bikes include the last three generations of Giant TCR's, Defy's, Propels, Revolts, as well as Specialized Tarmacs and Roubaixs, Enve Mog and Melee. Among others that I've test ridden. All with 25mm - 28mm tires. The vaunted 'springiness' of steel does not equal 'smooth comfort'. The springiness is the feel, or the response, coming from the bb area of the frame as you put power into it.
I get the idea that some people online tried carbon bikes 30 years ago and dismissed them. The same people probably never actually tried disc brakes, but dismissed them. Or perhaps tried an equivalently early days disc brake bike that was designed by a manufacturer that had no idea what they were doing at the time.

If you prefer a rim brake bike, great --goodness knows sometimes I do too, hence recently building up a couple of them and riding them thousands of miles. But good lord does the perpetuation of that 'carbon is rough, disc brakes are rough, deep dish wheels are rough' upset me. (Can you tell?)

From a performance perspective, both in terms of comfort and speed, a *good* carbon bike, which you can certainly get with your $7000 budget, will be smoother, feel more symbiotically responsive with the rider, and feel and be faster. And disc brakes will stop ten times better. Rim brakes are quite good enough in most situations. Disc brakes are quite a whole 'nother level of stopping power, modulation and confidence. And please ride a set of Enve 4.5 disc brake wheels and tell me that they are not smooth enough, probably because of their deep profile and being overbuilt to accommodate discs.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by Baron Blubba

This is pure grumpy old man myth on so many levels. I've owned dozens of bikes, rim and disc, and ridden dozens more. My current main ride is a nicely built Ritchey Logic, rim brake version. It's a great bike, no doubt. However, it is objectively less of a smooth ride than any of the modern carbon bikes, rim or disc, shallow rimmed or deep-rimmed (I have experience up to 65mm deep) that I've owned in the past 10 years or so. These bikes include the last three generations of Giant TCR's, Defy's, Propels, Revolts, as well as Specialized Tarmacs and Roubaixs, Enve Mog and Melee. Among others that I've test ridden. All with 25mm - 28mm tires. The vaunted 'springiness' of steel does not equal 'smooth comfort'. The springiness is the feel, or the response, coming from the bb area of the frame as you put power into it.
I get the idea that some people online tried carbon bikes 30 years ago and dismissed them. The same people probably never actually tried disc brakes, but dismissed them. Or perhaps tried an equivalently early days disc brake bike that was designed by a manufacturer that had no idea what they were doing at the time.

If you prefer a rim brake bike, great --goodness knows sometimes I do too, hence recently building up a couple of them and riding them thousands of miles. But good lord does the perpetuation of that 'carbon is rough, disc brakes are rough, deep dish wheels are rough' upset me. (Can you tell?)

From a performance perspective, both in terms of comfort and speed, a *good* carbon bike, which you can certainly get with your $7000 budget, will be smoother, feel more symbiotically responsive with the rider, and feel and be faster. And disc brakes will stop ten times better. Rim brakes are quite good enough in most situations. Disc brakes are quite a whole 'nother level of stopping power, modulation and confidence. And please ride a set of Enve 4.5 disc brake wheels and tell me that they are not smooth enough, probably because of their deep profile and being overbuilt to accommodate discs.

100%

[giordana93]

congrats to the OP for getting into the wonderful world of road bikes and stirring up the hive of discussion about various frame materials, tire size debates, yada yada. I am in the camp of putting all that in the background as you focus on a bike that FITS: both now as a burgeoning rider and in the future as a bike you can grow into. For many people this progression will involve finding what kind of reach and drop to the bar best suits your fitness and riding style (think long and easy vs fast and furious or compromise between the 2). Some of the pictured bikes have massive drop, others not so much. If you have average proportions (long vs short legs, arms, torso, etc), find a frame where your seat height is about even with the stem height when it is at the medium or slightly higher position (or with stem at positive rise). This should be high enough to start with room to go down after if you choose. Debates about tire size and pressure or fork springiness mean nothing if your position isn't working or is un-achievable because you bought a bike based on looks and specs while ignoring more important numbers of stack, reach, and appropriate seat tube angle (usually the latter will be within a normal range but there are outliers)

[vqdriver]

Finding a race oriented bike with clearance for 30+ and rim brakes is tough.
Methinks a caad13 checks a lot of boxes

[Likes2ridefar]

IMO it’s not that hard to fit a bike if you are willing to do some research and maybe get a little help. Worst case you may be off one size and you’ll down or upsize later. It’s a great excuse to get a new bike

I started on 58cm because that is what everyone told me but after two years I switched to 56cm and haven’t looked back.

[Baron Blubba]

When in doubt, size down. Better to lengthen the stem if you feel cramped then to get a shorter one because the reach is too long.

[raisinberry777]

Originally Posted by br0qn

focus izalco max - among those carbon frames i'd die to ride and something like a '15-'17' seem to hit the market often enough for not a lot of money Muffin Man's looks rad

Great bike but won't fit a 28. I have fitted some 28mm Continental Grand Sport race tyres just to test and there is less clearance than I am comfortable with for actual riding (under 2mm). Ridiculously cheap though - could probably find a frameset for $500 or so.

[NHAero]

My 2016 new to me Supersix Evo Hi-Mod might be a good example of an entry road bike for you that fits your specs. I am finding it surprisingly smooth, and I'm a lightweight like you. I'm running Agilests that measure out just under 24mm but the frameset will easily take larger tires. Very nice handling (doesn’t have the curious slacked out front end of the CAAD13), builds very light, rim brake mechanical.

[buddybikes]

Have a Carver or similar budget ti bike made for you, it will match your needs 100% and have a nice life. Everything else is a compromise in some way (except perhaps for a magical Independent Fabrications bike I found in classifieds for friend of mine)

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by Baron Blubba

When in doubt, size down. Better to lengthen the stem if you feel cramped then to get a shorter one because the reach is too long.

I had to use an 80mm stem on the 58 and it was still a half cm too long. It caused minor tendinitis in my shoulder when I ramped up my mileage. The bike otherwise fit and felt great.

To this day a professional fitter will think I should be on a 58 until they see my hips are higher up than expected.

[ChainNoise]

It doesn't sound like you are going for a custom geometry bike as pointed out in the OP...

..but for those suggesting go custom, I'd really stray away from that until you have your fit exactly where you want it.

I also think you're being way too picky right off the bat. You've only ridden 1 bike on the road. It took me quite a few bikes to settle on only 2 bikes that I will never get rid of. I, too, was a little obsessed with bottom bracket stiffness. 1 of the bikes I'll never get rid of it the second softest bottom bracket area I've experienced. I wouldn't quite consider it noodly, but it absolutely flexes there for sure.

What I'd be doing in your situation is finding a frame or two that are well under your budget and several years old. Start building and trying them out. Steel, CF, aluminum, maybe titanium if you can find a deal. They are out there. Don't like it, or get bored? Strip the bike down to a frame, sell the frame, and try something else. Get a size smaller than you're used to, and see how you like riding with a larger stem and more seatpost showing. Try bikes with vastly different geometries (straight up race geo vs relaxed, endurance geo) and determine what youd prefer. This is how I honed in exactly what I want in a bike.

**Disclaimer - if you aren't careful, this is a really easy way to blow a significant amount of money.

[72gmc]

I’m in the fit first camp. Ritchey, Specialized Allez, Trek, C’dale, and Giant come to mind when I think of standard geometries that could be good platforms for learning what you like. I’d be most tempted by Ritchey myself, and I’d also look at Ritte because I have so much respect for Tom Kellogg’s input on their geometries.

[Alistair]

Just going to repeat what others have already said…

Fit is paramount. Check the ETT, reach, and stack for the bikes you’re considering and make sure they’re similar to what you’re riding now (assuming that fits you well). Some of the bikes you linked look like race bikes - which often means a long/low fit (great for racing, maybe not for hilly centuries).

Frame material doesn’t really matter - any of the bikes you’re looking at are high quality and should ride just fine.

I’ve always like the looks of the Ritchey (simple, clean) but they’re a bit long/low for me.

Since you have some Litespeeds in mind, maybe consider some Lynskeys as well.