Seeking Waltly Advice

[deluz]

I got a quote from Waltly a while back. It was about $1400 for a road frame.
Also contacted Carver and his price was $1800.
I already have a custom steel frame so working from that I could calculate the equivalent stiffness for Ti tube sizes. Both Waltly and Carver were responsive but I think it is worth the extra money to go with Carver for his expertise and experience in designing Ti frames. Waltly will basically do what you ask but that may not result in the best design choices. In the end I did not feel confident enough to go with a Chinese Ti frame and will be going with another steel frame from a US builder that costs nearly the same price.

[ridethecliche]

Originally Posted by deluz

I got a quote from Waltly a while back. It was about $1400 for a road frame.
Also contacted Carver and his price was $1800.
I already have a custom steel frame so working from that I could calculate the equivalent stiffness for Ti tube sizes. Both Waltly and Carver were responsive but I think it is worth the extra money to go with Carver for his expertise and experience in designing Ti frames. Waltly will basically do what you ask but that may not result in the best design choices. In the end I did not feel confident enough to go with a Chinese Ti frame and will be going with another steel frame from a US builder that costs nearly the same price.

You can tell us who you went with ya know!

[deluz]

Originally Posted by ridethecliche

You can tell us who you went with ya know!

I actually have not chosen a builder yet or put down a deposit but have several quotes in that price range. That will be forth coming. If you want some suggestions PM me.

[gcartelli]

Originally Posted by deluz

I got a quote from Waltly a while back. It was about $1400 for a road frame.

When was this?? Mine cost 980 for a disc road in 2022 and 750 for a rim road in 2021. If the prices have gone up that high...i'm getting ponderosa cycles to make me a hardtail instead of going with W again lol.

[deluz]

Originally Posted by gcartelli

When was this?? Mine cost 980 for a disc road in 2022 and 750 for a rim road in 2021. If the prices have gone up that high...i'm getting ponderosa cycles to make me a hardtail instead of going with W again lol.

It was in Feb 2023.
Actually the quote for the frame was $980, the rest of the cost was for shipping and PayPal fees.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by deluz

I got a quote from Waltly a while back. It was about $1400 for a road frame.
Also contacted Carver and his price was $1800.

That's closer than I would have thought. And really makes the Carver model look like a bargain.

[EB]

My advice is probably not wanted, but I would advise against Waltly, unless you are an experienced frame designer. To me, the "savings" do not pencil out. There are so many variables in frame design and tubing selection, and failure to optimize them correctly can easily result in a bad local maxima for your use case - a road bike that's a boat anchor or uncomfortably stiff (or both!), a mountain bike that will break if you take it off a drop or only fits 2" tires, impractical handling characteristics... the list is endless.

As Grandmaster Flash says - Don't do it!

[litcrazy]

I definitely think there's risk involved and recognize that. I also realize that there's quite a bit of risk with any custom build. I've read many accounts of folks working with well reputed builders and not successfully communicating their desires with pretty unfortunate results. Without a test ride, there's risk. And without clear comps, I'm not sure how easy it is to communicate how stiff I want on a scale of one to ten.

I also realize that I've spent way too much time thinking about geometry and realize want to scratch my design itch with an appreciation of what's worked for me (slack seatposts), what hasn't worked for me (tucked tail ends) and what makes sense for the gravel I ride out the door (2.3-2.6" tires).

What I'm least confident about is tubing, so I'm excited for those offers of help. It does seem like Waltly works with .9mm straight gage tubes for the most part, so there are a lot less variables to sort out.

Fingers crossed.

[StressStrain]

@litcrazy you ride a gravel bike with 2.3-2.6" tires?

[litcrazy]

Originally Posted by StressStrain

@litcrazy you ride a gravel bike with 2.3-2.6" tires?

I want that capacity as an option for long chunky gravel days and bikepacking here in New Mexico and the surrounding area

I was running my bmc allroad with a measured 57 front and rear and was left wanting a bit more. I switched to a 48 in back for a more reasonable clearance and it isn’t quite enough.

I rode the white rim trail in a day in April. I was tempted to ride my bmc but went with my Chumba rigid mountain bike with a really fast rolling 2.8 in front and 2.6 in back. I loved the tire choice bit would have preferred the fit/comfort of a drop bar bike. Likewise, I have along rride out my door that mixes road, smooth gravel, chunky jeep roads, and single track. I can do it with a 48 in back but it would be more fun with more tire.

I’m thinking a 650b wheelset with 2.35/2.6 vittoria mezcal’s which are crazy fast and a 700c wheelset with 40-43mm tires for more typical gravel.

Hopefully that makes sense given the region and my affinity for underbing single track. I’ll move the bmc on but keep my cantilevered seven steel tsunami that just fits a 35 in back and had quick steering in front… like 74 degree head angle quick. That will provide nice gravel differentiation.

[litcrazy]

The other issue we have on some of our big gravel rides here is no reliable water crossing and no store interfaces. That means loading up 150-200 ounces of water with its accompanying weight.

A few cool options are emerging like the ritchey ascent (a bit low in the stack) and the bmc la cabra but titanium feels really optimal for a bike that will spend its life riding rough road with small rocks getting kicked up, being sprayed with tire sealant, having a variety of packs strapped on depending on the adventure and occasional riding through gravel dust and summer storms on the back of a car.

I’m leaning towards a steel form though since l’ve heard most ti forks seek to emulate carbon. I’ll start with the Potts/soma collaboration. I’m going with the 420 axle to crown to get more room than a 395/405 fork can provide without the unnecessary aesthetic, weight, rigidity hit of a suspension corrected fork. If it’s too stiff, I could imagine a waltworks custom fork at some point.

I also like long chainstays for balance with the shorter front end I need, so I’m hoping to keep the ability to run road cranks. Likely a trusted ritchey 110/74 square taper set up with something like 42/26 chainrings.

I think it’s obvious that I’m pretty excited and I’ve put way too much thought into this.

Another reason I’ve decided to go waltly is I didn’t want to be that guy who goes custom and then had too many opinions and doesn’t just trust their designer/builder and then tried to micromanage the process. A lot of the semi-custom bikes that fit my tire preferences tend to go towards a modern mountain bike geometry that’s long and super slack in front and super tucked in back.

For big rides I want to emulate my road set up in relation to saddle position and my back doesn’t like a long top tube. I know a for that works for me for long days on the saddle and I want to stick with that.

[NYCfixie]

Originally Posted by litcrazy

...I definitely think there's risk involved and recognize that. I also realize that there's quite a bit of risk with any custom build. I've read many accounts of folks working with well reputed builders and not successfully communicating their desires with pretty unfortunate results...

Exactly, with my first custom I went with Seven but something got lost along the way between Ride Studio (retailer) and Seven (design group). The result was a 53cm frame that was way too stiff for me. We swapped tires, wheels, and seatpost before I pressed them to go back and look at their notes and my emails before the final sign off.

They realized something was miscommunicated so the rear end was made "extra stiff" rather than "not too stiff". They took the frame back and replaced the seatstays and seatube which resulted in a softer ride. Then we realized they put the bottle cage mount in the wrong place on the new seattube (again, a big issue on smaller frames) so they took the frame back again. In the end, they decided to build another new frame with the correct seat stays and seattube (diameter) with the bottle cage in the correct place. Thankfully this process only took several weeks because they made it a priority.

Almost 8 years later, the frame still rides like a dream and if I were ever to get another custom Ti, I would be hard pressed to use anyone else. Not trying to advocate for Seven but rather be careful especially if it is your first custom and you do not have the knowledge because you may end up with a very expensive mistake that is un-ridable.

[prototoast]

There's definitely a risk going with Wally, and there's a a risk going with any custom bike. The risk with Wally is probably higher, but the price is lower.

You can buy 3-4 Wally frames for the price of one boutique titanium frame, so even if it takes some trial and error, you can still come out ahead.

But ultimately that's just about the mechanical properties of the bike. The experiences of going with a custom builder vs designing something yourself scratch different itches in our brains, and I don't think they're interchangeable.

[Hensem]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I've offered waltly consulting services to people here for free. Sorry for undercutting the market.

Hi. Tell me, please, can I turn to you for advice? I'm ordering a second frame from Waltly tomorrow.

[litcrazy]

Another waltly question regarding tire capacity. When waltly indicates a tire capacity for mountain or gravel, how tight/generous are they in their judgement? When waltly indicate a frame will clear a specific tire size, what does that mean?

Waltly says it may not be able to build to my tire capacity requests. They asked if I would accept a capacity of 29” by 2.5.” Based on other buyers’ experience does 2.5” capacity mean it will fit your typical undersized 2.5” tire with 2mm on each side or does it mean it will fit a 2.5” measured tire with 4-6mm on each side?

It may sound like nitpicking, but that difference might be the difference
between going forward and recognizing that they can’t make what I’m looking for and instead going with a black mountain la cabra or ritchey ascent, with the trade off of a good enough fit and the capability I’m looking for. I appreciate they are asking and not just pretending it will have more tire capacity than it does.

I realize the ti bikes with the capacity I’m asking for (the Singular Gryphon and Tumbleweed Stargazer) are both made by Ora in Taiwan. So even if someone is doing what I want, waltly may not have before. Though I would think they would have done many a hardtail with room for 2.6” 29” tires and 2.8” 27.5 tires. I’m not sure I want them to build outside of their comfort zone in order to accommodate me.

To be fully honest with myself, I want the frame to fit 27.5 2.6” vittoria mezcals since they are crazy fast and plush.

I just swapped the 29 2.6 mezcal from rear to front and put a 2.35 on the rear off my Chumba for extra mud clearance for summer bikepacking and the volume difference is massive.