Well known Sonoma racer died from swallowing bee/bug

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by benb

I went and looked this up after what fourflys mentioned.

I have had numerous first aid classes that covered Epi-Pen injections, I can't ever recall anyone talking about laws around using them in an emergency situation. But most states including CA have Good Samaritan's laws and that is always discussed in first aid classes IME. Google searching laws is not simple or easy. I turned up a reference to NY possibly explicitly allowing someone with even just first aid training to give one to someone in an emergency without a prescription, that's about it. It sounds like even online classes like the Red Cross have are enough to allow you to administer them.

If I'm the one having a reaction and my airway is closing and someone hands me one they happen to have to me I am 100% giving myself the injection.

I think I would probably give one to someone else too in a closing airway situation. They are not exactly dangerous in comparison to a closing airway.

It's way way way less scary than having to do CPR or use the AED, and you are always supposed to be calling 911 anyway anytime one is used or needs to be used.

I am also near 99% sure when my mother went into shock (MA, a long time ago) and her airway started closing the EMTs gave her a shot almost immediately when they arrived without a prescription. There is no time to go to the hospital first.

All that said the only way I'd think one might be present at a bike race would be if another participant had a prescription and came running.

I'm on the first aid team at work. I am almost certain the most class covered these, but I have no idea if we have them in the office or it was just meant for someone with an allergy who had one. It is not like an Epi-Pen would be a big deal in terms of cost for a place that has already invested in a ton of gear including multiple AEDs.

so good samaritan laws are a whole different thing.. I thought you were initially referring to someone who was hired to act in a EMS-like capacity and likely held some type of license like an EMT-card.. they are NOT covered by good sam laws, even when off duty in most cases.. they still have to act within the scope of their license..

some states do have local regulations that allow a higher level of care that what National EMT allows.. for example, when I ran in Virginia, we could do Combi-tubes if we were in a rural area (sort of a can't get it wrong airway), but would have to wait on the paramedic to do an ET tube if I was in VA Beach, for example.. could also depend on what your local medical direction allows you to do as well in some cases.. finally, we often carried meds in the rig that I, as an EMT, was not allowed to administer, but the Paramedic could.. they often rode around in a "zone car" and responded to certain calls.. on the Coast Guard ship, I could a LOT more on active duty folks..

*also I think a lot of folks don't realize that a licensed EMT MUST have a medical director that they "work for".. that's easy when you work for a fire house, ambulance service, hospital, etc.. not sure how the folks that work these small venues like a cross race on their own manage that.. makes me wonder what their level actually is sometimes.. I see the same type if folks at my kid's horse shows.. I can't imagine it's cheap to pay a Dr to sign off on your stuff and be on call if you have a medical question in the field..

hope that makes sense..

[djg21]

Originally Posted by coffeecherrypie

Sounds like a fail by the medic tent, they “told him to go to the ER”, he walks off toward his vehicle and dies.

I was thinking something similar. I cannot imagine that the Medic tent would not have had a EpiPen. I wasn’t there and do not know what happened or what was communicated.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by fourflys

I guess my point is people get stung by bees all the time around the world.. most don't call an ambulance when they do, as evidenced by some folk's experience on this thread.. have you ever worked in EMS or medicine in general? ..

I mean, If we take the story as written as factual, they told him to go to the Emergency Room.

I hardly can believe that's true, medical tent telling someone experiencing a medical emergency to drive themselves to the ER?

If that's really what happened, that's terrible.

On Nov. 3, the day after his 69th birthday, Heiman was riding a warm up lap preparing to race a cyclocross event in Sacramento when he swallowed a bee or a bug and was stung. According to his wife, Caroline Hughes of Penngrove, he told people around him he was having trouble clearing his throat. He went to the medic tent and was told to go to the emergency room.

But Heiman collapsed near his truck. His throat had swollen and he was without oxygen for approximately 20 minutes, Hughes was told. He was taken to UC Davis Medical Center but never regained consciousness.

He died Monday, Nov. 11. He was 69.

[benb]

Originally Posted by fourflys

I guess my point is people get stung by bees all the time around the world.. most don't call an ambulance when they do, as evidenced by some folk's experience on this thread.. have you ever worked in EMS or medicine in general?

How long ago were you working? People get stung by bees all the time without a serious reaction. But everyone who has a serious anaphylactic reaction requiring emergency care has a "first reaction event" and they don't get a prescription until they've had to call 911, get a shot from the EMTs, get taken to the hospital, *then* they get a prescription for the next time. Once you have the first one you are on watch for the rest of your life.

Maybe I'm just more aware cause of family history? My mom was in her 40s when this happened to her, I was with her. She had been stung numerous times without a serious reaction earlier in life.

I am still very paranoid every time I get stung that based on that family history it could happen to me too!

The more I googled this the more it looks like an increasing list of states have specifically allowed this for drugs like Epi-Pens and now things like Narcan. It sounds like police and fire fighters are doing tens of thousands of Narcan injections a year in the US now.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by benb

How long ago were you working? People get stung by bees all the time without a serious reaction. But everyone who has a serious anaphylactic reaction requiring emergency care has a "first reaction event" and they don't get a prescription until they've had to call 911, get a shot from the EMTs, get taken to the hospital, *then* they get a prescription for the next time. Once you have the first one you are on watch for the rest of your life.

Maybe I'm just more aware cause of family history? My mom was in her 40s when this happened to her, I was with her. She had been stung numerous times without a serious reaction earlier in life.

I am still very paranoid every time I get stung that based on that family history it could happen to me too!

The more I googled this the more it looks like an increasing list of states have specifically allowed this for drugs like Epi-Pens and now things like Narcan. It sounds like police and fire fighters are doing tens of thousands of Narcan injections a year in the US now.

I don't disagree with any of this.. I would still like to know what level of "medic" was manning the tent.. what level of training did they have, etc..

and I would be paranoid as well based on family history..

my guess is the race promoter will be looked at to determine what requirements they had to provide what level of care at their event and did they meet they level? If they did, then did the medic fail in their scope of care, which if they were a licensed EMT, it sounds like they may have..

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by djg21

I was thinking something similar. I cannot imagine that the Medic tent would not have had a EpiPen. I wasn’t there and do not know what happened or what was communicated.

so it turns out an EMT can administer an Epi-Pen in California to a patient experiencing anaphylaxis, so that's cool! so my guess is that person was either not an EMT or was not an EMT in a duty status that allowed them carry a full EMT bag with meds maybe? Although it also says laypersons/businesses in CA can get certified to have Epi-pens and have folks trained to administer.. so again, would be interested to know what level of training was manning the "medic tent"..

[Spaghetti Legs]

Anaphylaxis is a big deal and pretty obviously an emergency to the least trained of people. My guess is he had localized swelling either at the beginning of his esophagus or trachea that slowly closed off his airway. If it was in his airway, his voice would have been different before closing off but maybe not if in his esophagus or back of his mouth. An epipen would have helped but doesn’t seem to have been an obvious epipen situation.

Just a case of really *****ty luck. I’m sorry for him and his family. An astute medic may have have picked it up but I wouldn’t point a finger at anyone based on the info in the article.

EMT’s work under the license of a doctor btw. If someone is going to have a medic tent at an event, there should be a doctor responsible, whether present or not and that is one of the things you pay for when you sign up.