“Z” couplers

[Hakkalugi]

Waltly does have Z-couplers, I have a hardtail mtb frame inbound. I’m sure they are a clone and not really a Paragon coupler. Paragon makes steel and ti couplers under license from Santana, any builder can use them on a non-tandem bike. They should be retrofit-able, but obviously you’ll need to refinish/repaint the bike. I have 3 Waltly S&S frames (road, gravel, wife’s gravel) in the house and have never had one loosen, but typically after the first ride a bit of tightening is needed (maybe 1/4 turn). Walty’s lock ring that holds the coupler is steel and can rust, they’re sending me stainless replacements with this new frame.

My Slim Chance has a Z, and it’s pretty much the coolest thing since sliced bread. The frame uses a Ritchey-style seat tube coupler, those Zs are expensive and the seat tube system is rock solid. https://mamilmisings.com/a-slim-chance-at-success

[mistermo]

For the tall folks....

I've had a few Ritchey Breakaway bikes and their couplers have worked great for me with the added benefit of being stealthy (vs S&S). I ride Ritchey's size XL, with 58cm top tube. Even with a 58cm TT, I need a 140mm stem to get my bars out far enough.

The coupler placement at the intersection of the TT/ST creates a longish TT when uncoupled, and this longish, XL, 58cm TT takes the full length of the case. I'm tall and would prefer a 59+ top tube. One of the the benefits of the Z couplers is that they can be placed somewhere along the TT which shortens its packed length, thereby allowing a longer TT when considering a custom build.

Along with the other builders mentioned, I've exchanged emails with Erik at Alliance and he informs me he can build w Z couplers too.

One last pitch... When considering a fatter tired bike (vs a road bike) cantilever braked bikes are waaay better than discs when packing in a travel case. Disc rotors are a pain to remove, are easily bent, and most require hydraulic fluid which doesn't work well with air pressure changes, inevitable when traveling by airplane. With a SRAM wireless shifting setup and canti brakes, there's only one cable to disconnect (rear brake). Easy peasy.

[truth]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Can these be added to a bike as a retrofit or new build only? Anyone know?

They can be retrofit but they're only available for fairly large tubes.

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by mistermo

One last pitch... When considering a fatter tired bike (vs a road bike) cantilever braked bikes are waaay better than discs when packing in a travel case. Disc rotors are a pain to remove, are easily bent, and most require hydraulic fluid which doesn't work well with air pressure changes, inevitable when traveling by airplane. With a SRAM wireless shifting setup and canti brakes, there's only one cable to disconnect (rear brake). Easy peasy.

If you don't want to go super-fat, but maybe more "all road" and can work with a 32-35mm tire, you can also go with a medium-reach caliper brake in the rear. Then you can just unscrew the brake from the rear seatstay bridge and leave it connected to the front part of the frame. You'll have to get the framebuilder to position the rear brake bridge properly, but that shouldn't be a big ask. (Also, the rear cable stop along the top tube needs to be in front of the tube junction.)

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by Hakkalugi

My Slim Chance has a Z, and it’s pretty much the coolest thing since sliced bread. The frame uses a Ritchey-style seat tube coupler, those Zs are expensive and the seat tube system is rock solid. https://mamilmisings.com/a-slim-chance-at-success

Fixing your link: https://mamilmusings.com/a-slim-chance-at-success


...and it's a great write-up. If you're thinking about clicking on it and have some time, it's well worth reading.

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

If you don't want to go super-fat, but maybe more "all road" and can work with a 32-35mm tire, you can also go with a medium-reach caliper brake in the rear. Then you can just unscrew the brake from the rear seatstay bridge and leave it connected to the front part of the frame. You'll have to get the framebuilder to position the rear brake bridge properly, but that shouldn't be a big ask. (Also, the rear cable stop along the top tube needs to be in front of the tube junction.)

This is correct, however also consider the front bars/stem which you'll also have to remove for most flexible packing options, which is necessary on large frames. Canti brakes stay on the bike and the bars/stem come entirely off by unhooking at the straddle cable-no cable splitters. Caliper brakes likely require removal, probably front and rear, whereas canti brakes do not (large frames).

[Hakkalugi]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

Fixing your link: https://mamilmusings.com/a-slim-chance-at-success


...and it's a great write-up. If you're thinking about clicking on it and have some time, it's well worth reading.

Thanks! It should be read with a strong cocktail, that’s how it was written.

[mass_biker]

Originally Posted by mistermo

This is correct, however also consider the front bars/stem which you'll also have to remove for most flexible packing options, which is necessary on large frames. Canti brakes stay on the bike and the bars/stem come entirely off by unhooking at the straddle cable-no cable splitters. Caliper brakes likely require removal, probably front and rear, whereas canti brakes do not (large frames).

Agreed - my Canti breakaway is pretty easy to pack up. The front brake does stay connected and the straddle cable is where it detaches. It makes breakdown/setup quite seamless. Mine is currently running 700x35. Plenty cushy. When rolling 700x28 or 30 it’s downright speedy-ish.

[unterhausen]

So they can only be butt welded into a frame? At least there is a lugged version of the S&S

[smontanaro]

Originally Posted by ltwtsculler91

I went with Z couplers on my Hampsten titanium frame, and have seen a few of the No22s with them....

I read through the pig thread. Lovely bike. How is the rear brake done, some sort of little coupler gizmo, or slotted stops on the top tube? I assume the derailleurs are electronic, so cable-free.

[smontanaro]

Originally Posted by rapid_ti

Interesting to see the Z-couplers on a solo bike. I previously thought that was an option only on a Santana tandem.

Paragon sells them, but explicitly states that they are only for singles. Santana retains all use on tandems.

[Hakkalugi]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

So they can only be butt welded into a frame? At least there is a lugged version of the S&S

They get milled down to sleeve into the tube. They come 75mm long, but the welds on my frame are 45mm apart.

[jpang922]

Originally Posted by Hakkalugi

Thanks! It should be read with a strong cocktail, that’s how it was written.

Excellent write up. Quite possibly the ultimate travel bike. I bet the hydro couplers plus the removable cable guides make packing a total no brainer.

[mass_biker]

For those that have gone down this route, what is the best travel case for a bike like this?

I currently have the case for the Ritchey Breakaway - but is there one that is better suited for the Z coupled bike breakdown? Is the S&S case smaller?

Still debating whether I go down the path of having a Z coupled singlespeed (or regular geared) frame. In either case it would be rim brake.

MB

[benb]

Originally Posted by mistermo

One last pitch... When considering a fatter tired bike (vs a road bike) cantilever braked bikes are waaay better than discs when packing in a travel case. Disc rotors are a pain to remove, are easily bent, and most require hydraulic fluid which doesn't work well with air pressure changes, inevitable when traveling by airplane. With a SRAM wireless shifting setup and canti brakes, there's only one cable to disconnect (rear brake). Easy peasy.

Does this require sourcing older SRAM stuff? Do they still make a wireless shifter + rim setup? Maybe in Red only?