Semi-smart watch

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by benb

Yah.. external battery to get through a day? Hard pass.

Steve Jobs would never have let the Apple Watch go out the way it did. He would have told the development team it was a terrible piece of trash (but would have said it with a lot of explicit language) and made them keep working on it. The battery life would have been a biggie. The UI would not have been good enough for him. The screen having to turn off until you made a gesture in the early ones would have gotten a lot of dirty looks. I think at this point he would have very much soured at the way all these devices are "greedy for attention" by this point. The device is supposed to set you free, not make you carry around an external battery for it.

I think he would have soured on Jonny Ive faster than Tim Cook did too, or at least provided a very important check & balance.. Ive was responsible for a lot of the design stumbles that occurred after Jobs died...

Lol, a lot of assumptions there about a guy that has been dead for years.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

The newest HR sensor as seen in the Fenix 7 is a lot better than the outgoing model in my experience. I run a few days a week and the HR is good for what i'm looking for out of it.

Yeah, the new optical HR sensor ends in a 4, I think. Apparently better, but for my use the old version would probably be fine. The 7 also has a bit better charging and battery life. And the new HR sensor and better battery stuff are also available in the Instinct, so I may be heading that way.

I'd stick with my old Suunto, but it has to be charged via USB, and that won't work out in the wild over multiple days.

Apparently Suunto still doesn't have anything with solar charging. I guess they're going for a less adventurous or more tethered demographic.

[Likes2ridefar]

And to be clear, the battery referred to is for when camping and no electricity. Obviously everywhere else you can just plug it in.

It easily makes it through a hard day of gps tracking multiple sports, IME.

Overkill for OP but if going smart why get something dumb.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by reuben

Yeah, the new optical HR sensor ends in a 4, I think. Apparently better, but for my use the old version would probably be fine. The 7 also has a bit better charging and battery life. And the new HR sensor and better battery stuff are also available in the Instinct, so I may be heading that way.

I'd stick with my old Suunto, but it has to be charged via USB, and that won't work out in the wild over multiple days.

Apparently Suunto still doesn't have anything with solar charging. I guess they're going for a less adventurous or more tethered demographic.

Suunto used to be THE leader in the adventure watch segment. They have fallen way, way behind garmin in every category. I wonder why? I used to really like suunto.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Suunto used to be THE leader in the adventure watch segment. They have fallen way, way behind garmin in every category. I wonder why? I used to really like suunto.

Lack of good leadership. And they just sold again.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/01/...ers-again.html

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Suunto used to be THE leader in the adventure watch segment. They have fallen way, way behind garmin in every category. I wonder why? I used to really like suunto.

One they failed to deliver on was software. The few I had were poor UI and not intuitive.

I always liked how they looked though.

[benb]

Like I said I have the instinct solar and it's still pretty poor on the HRM IMO.

Lift weights and it will miss your sets completely. Do intervals anywhere under 5 minutes on your bike and it will completely misread that. Off by more than 1 HR zone cause it takes too long to register changes in HR compared to an electrode based system.

And you need to have the watch cranked down hard on your wrist to get it to perform at all as a HRM.

It's going to vary for everyone I guess. I have light skin which is supposedly better. But not much fat, maybe it gets better contact with a little more padding. By the time I have it cranked down enough to have it start working better it's very uncomfortable and restricting if your hands are on the handlebars or you're handling barbells/dumbells/whatever.

I doubt it's many people here but I really think the only people who are going to find the performance acceptable are people who have no history of wearing a chest strap based HRM.

The Sp02 readings are off by enough (low) a doctor would think something was wrong with you if they didn't know the device was bad.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by benb

Like I said I have the instinct solar and it's still pretty poor on the HRM IMO.

Lift weights and it will miss your sets completely. Do intervals anywhere under 5 minutes on your bike and it will completely misread that. Off by more than 1 HR zone cause it takes too long to register changes in HR compared to an electrode based system.

And you need to have the watch cranked down hard on your wrist to get it to perform at all as a HRM.

It's going to vary for everyone I guess. I have light skin which is supposedly better. But not much fat, maybe it gets better contact with a little more padding. By the time I have it cranked down enough to have it start working better it's very uncomfortable and restricting if your hands are on the handlebars or you're handling barbells/dumbells/whatever.

I doubt it's many people here but I really think the only people who are going to find the performance acceptable are people who have no history of wearing a chest strap based HRM.

The Sp02 readings are off by enough (low) a doctor would think something was wrong with you if they didn't know the device was bad.

To be more specific, I use my old Suunto optical HRM just as occasional info when hiking. I don't use it when cycling, and I use a real chest strap HRM when I row (sometimes, anyway). So I'm not looking for a lot of precision or instantaneous measurements, which is why the optical is OK for my purposes.

If I want to know my pulse when I wake up (very rare), two fingers on my wrist works fine. Never got the hang of using the carotid artery.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by benb

Like I said I have the instinct solar and it's still pretty poor on the HRM IMO.

Lift weights and it will miss your sets completely. Do intervals anywhere under 5 minutes on your bike and it will completely misread that. Off by more than 1 HR zone cause it takes too long to register changes in HR compared to an electrode based system.

That’s not at all my experience with a Garmin Forerunner 645 and a TomTom Runner before that. Neither were as good as an old chest strap, but both were good enough.

[benb]

It really does depend on what you're using it for.

It's been > 5 years since I cared at all what my HR was for intervals, cause it's a poor metric compared to using a power meter.

It's almost more like I use it as a backup to make sure somethings not way off with my health or recovery.

If I was trying to use it for training like I did before I had power meters forget it, the optical would be a total waste of time. The old fashioned CatEye or Shimano whatever that I had back in 2000 would be far superior to the optical ones. A chest strap one already responds slow with the way HR doesn't track effort correctly, the optical would make it nearly impossible to pace correctly.

But it's also like "Why did I buy yet another device and it mostly doesn't do what it says and is another hungry battery to charge and another device to update the software on"? I've had 3 smart watches and they are all poor gadgets compared to other modern gadgets.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

Solar charging hasn't really taken hold, I'm guessing there's a pretty big gap between solar input and necessary wattage.

I'm surprised. I've been wearing a Citizens Eco Drive for well over 10 years and in addition to being pretty reliable, they seem to be viewed pretty favorably by all I've run across and reviews. Unless you mean some other type...

[benb]

The solar is the one part of the Instinct Solar that is actually awesome.

You can easily get weeks to a month out of it. It's way less hungry than a Fenix with more of the face dedicated to high efficiency solar cells.

But yah it's not Eco Drive where the thing is going to run 50 years without an issue and can't be charged.

My favorite Eco Drive was so good it had a 6 month power reserve if you suddenly decided you wanted to go on a caving expedition. I think it only needed 8 minutes of sunlight to get enough power for 24 hours of operation. That watch was amazing till the sapphire crystal face had a run-in with a diamond. Titanium Case with screw down crown, Titanium bracelet, 200M WR, Perpetual calendar, zero service meant zero water intrusion, and a great price. I haven't bought another because I have yet to find a model similar enough.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

I'm surprised. I've been wearing a Citizens Eco Drive for well over 10 years and in addition to being pretty reliable, they seem to be viewed pretty favorably by all I've run across and reviews. Unless you mean some other type...

I have one too.

They're not powering electronic devices though, just a quartz oscillator. Pretty vastly different power requirements.

[CZ413]

I guess I’m much less picky than others, but I use a Fenix 6 for tracking hikes (4-7 miles) and rides (it’s winter here, so maybe only 100 miles a week), and don’t charge it more than once every week or ten days, probably less often if I let the battery run all the way down. The HRM has been more than accurate enough for my purposes, and registers changes quickly the few times I’ve ridden the trainer (doing intervals) this winter. I’ve used a chest strap in the past, and the watch seems close enough to what I recall of that. I’m not seeking or expecting perfection, though. <shrug>

[David Tollefson]

This thread has me thinking... I have an Eco-Drive that I haven't worn in a long time. Needs a factory reset (I'm told it can be done by the user). Engraved on the backing (from an ex). I'd be interested in passing it along to an interested party.