just a reminder: the cheap stuff is really good these days...

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

yes.



when that one lane road is definitely closed to cars - as in the picture. there was zero concern as i was riding that i was going to get buzzed by a sport bike or jackass in a tesla tearing up the road. glorious.

We have one road like that outside Portland - it is a treat for the few weeks it’s rideable before the cars are released.

[Bantamben]

Was that GMR? it’s a great ride up to baldy , it’s been s couple years since I climbed it always a nice ride.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Bantamben

Was that GMR? it’s a great ride up to baldy , it’s been s couple years since I climbed it always a nice ride.

yes.

all the way to the ski lifts...

tough one for me in january, for sure.

[Kontact]

In the '90s a $1200 bike was a pro-level racer. Now it is entry level. That isn't because of inflation, but because we've come to believe that a $3000 bike is perfectly average and a $7000 bike is money well spent.

But $1200 is still a huge investment in a single sporting goods item - we've just normalized the luxury expenditures we make in cycling to the point that we talk about lower end Rolex pricing as if it is the only way of telling the time.


A $1200 bike should feel awesome as it really isn't doing anything so significantly different than what a Nashbar aluminum bike with Microshift 8 speed and Tektro parts would do for $500. We've just lost sight of how much our sport has become the poster child for diminishing returns. In the last 25 years "pro level" bike pricing has increased nearly 10 times. What other common sports, leisure or travel item has skyrocketed that much? Supercars?

[jb_11]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

how's the high school football, though?

[GregL]

Originally Posted by Kontact

In the '90s a $1200 bike was a pro-level racer. Now it is entry level. That isn't because of inflation, but because we've come to believe that a $3000 bike is perfectly average and a $7000 bike is money well spent.

But $1200 is still a huge investment in a single sporting goods item - we've just normalized the luxury expenditures we make in cycling to the point that we talk about lower end Rolex pricing as if it is the only way of telling the time.


A $1200 bike should feel awesome as it really isn't doing anything so significantly different than what a Nashbar aluminum bike with Microshift 8 speed and Tektro parts would do for $500. We've just lost sight of how much our sport has become the poster child for diminishing returns. In the last 25 years "pro level" bike pricing has increased nearly 10 times. What other common sports, leisure or travel item has skyrocketed that much? Supercars?

1993 Cannondale R900 with Ultegra: $1,560
2018 Cannondale CAAD12 Ultegra: $2,100
Increase in price: 35%
Inflation rate 1993 to 2018: 73%

The CAAD12 is arguably a "better" bike than the R900. Looks like a good value to me.

Greg

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by rnhood

Agree, even a cheap Specialized is knocking on the door of the top tier. And I'd rather be riding Tiagra than most anything Sram or Campagnolo make.

I would be interested in hearing more about your opinion on this ... which SRAM or Campagnolo groups and what about them you did not care for.

[dancinkozmo]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

I would be interested in hearing more about your opinion on this ... which SRAM or Campagnolo groups and what about them you did not care for.

here we go !

[jtbadge]

This doesn't go for Tiagra, but I like 105 and higher Shimano and any SRAM over the Record 10 group I briefly owned this fall. Not for me.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by dancinkozmo

here we go !

I hope rnhood does not read that as a challenge or as an attempt by me to draw him into some kind of heated discussion. I'm not hear to fly the flag for the other brands...I actually like all three as each has its merits.

But, when someone says i would rather ride tiagra than most anything from the other two...well, I would be interested in reading some elaboration.

Staying on topic, I would have to ride current Tiagra to agree or not with Nick as I perviously considered 105 t be the base entry for an enthusiast. My daughter from about age 9-13 rode sora, tiagra then 10sp 105 and had a clear preference for 105 from both a fit and shifting and braking standpoint. Despite her youth she a pretty accomplished rider able to clean adv-intermediates at lift assisted northstar and rode up our 3.3/1300' bench mark climb (both at age nine)

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

This doesn't go for Tiagra, but I like 105 and higher Shimano and any SRAM over the Record 10 group I briefly owned this fall. Not for me.

same question here...what was it about R10 that the OP did not like. interested in moving the comment from a statement to a learning.

I stopped using shimano road at 9sp ultegra triple. I like the fixed lever of sram and campagnolo. If i got on current gen shimano, I suspect it wouldn't be a big deal to adapt back to the dual lever motion.

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by GregL

1993 Cannondale R900 with Ultegra: $1,560
2018 Cannondale CAAD12 Ultegra: $2,100
Increase in price: 35%
Inflation rate 1993 to 2018: 73%

The CAAD12 is arguably a "better" bike than the R900. Looks like a good value to me.

Greg

The R900 was Cannondale's top of the line road frameset in 1993. The Supersix Evo is today's equivalent. Cannondale cheaped out on the wheels with the Supersix Ultegra, and Ultegra is about $300 to $400 less than Dura Ace. So is the top of the line 1993 R900 a good comparison to the $2100 CAAD, or the Supersix DA that Cannondale sells for $5000? (Or we could say $4600 if we reflect Ultegra pricing.)


Yeah, you can get Ultegra bikes from Bikesdirect for $1500 today. But that would have been like putting Ultegra on a HiTen frame in 1993. You have to consider what is considered actually high end in these different eras. Your standard carbon framed Ultegra bike is $3000 with entry level, off brand wheels these days, and when you put "race wheels" on it the price goes screaming up.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by rnhood

Agree, even a cheap Specialized is knocking on the door of the top tier. And I'd rather be riding Tiagra than most anything Sram or Campagnolo make.

Someone is having a bad day. Or forgot their coffee.

[jtbadge]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

same question here...what was it about R10 that the OP did not like. interested in moving the comment from a statement to a learning.

I stopped using shimano road at 9sp ultegra triple. I like the fixed lever of sram and campagnolo. If i got on current gen shimano, I suspect it wouldn't be a big deal to adapt back to the dual lever motion.

Paddle shifting shifts the RD to the opposite direction that I am used to from the other brands. The thumb shifter motion is awkward. Hood ergonomics were uncomfortable. Pproprietary shift cables and freehub body reduce cross compatibility with the rest of my gear. The clearcoat on the carbon stuff chips easily and looks shoddy.

Granted, 11 speed has fixed some of this stuff. And I'm glad I tried it.

[gasman]

I don't really think it's being a troll to knock SRAM,Campy or Shimano. We all have our preferences and actually they all work fine as far as I can tell.
No need to shout on the forum.