New Santa Barbara bike laws

[jm714]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

If e-bikes are classified as motor vehicles, and have the same requirements as motorcycles, kids won't be riding them until they're 16 and have gotten their license. Which would be perfect.

It wont happen in California. Do you know why? Unfortunately this is going to sound political and it isn’t meant to be political. It is just the reality of the situation. Once you start requiring licenses and insurance for e-bikes then that is going to mean another class of people are going to be caught up in enforcement and once that happens the legislators of this fine state will lose their sh1t.

[IJWS]

Lots of comments, has anybody been to Santa Barbara recently? All of the kids get around on e-bikes--and there's a lot of kids there. I am guessing the local laws were written by a group of concerned parents.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by jm714

Without enforcement it doesn’t matter.

I think this is the salient point, and applies well beyond the subject of this thread. From mobile phone use while driving to running red lights to <insert_your_pet_peeve>, if the police aren't there to enforce the law then the law is irrelevant.

My forecast is that, if the city council approves the law, it will cause a brief period of enforcement after which it will become irrelevant.

Digression: In my neighborhood, a collaboration between residents and Dept of Transportation following development that dramatically increased traffic volume put in place some controls intended to regulate the flow. That included a left turn ban during morning rush hour at a particular intersection. Traffic police patrolled and warned/ticketed offenders for the first couple of months after it was put in place, then stopped. Years have passed and there is now a very steady flow of cars turning left in the morning; I would guess that most drivers are ignorant that the restriction is even there. Earlier this week I encountered three motorcycle cops harvesting violators like shooting fish in a barrel; I guess that either someone will pull complained or they just decided it was easy money. Either way, it made me smile.

[unterhausen]

I think most of the problematic ebikes are really classified as mopeds in California. There are moped laws that cover them, and most of them are illegal as mopeds. Legal ebikes are required to be labeled class 1,2,3 with their wattage.

I don't think it's as hard as people are making it out to be.

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

In my state of Massachusetts, recent laws have been passed to define Electric Bicycles. The law now recognizes Class 1 and Class 2 e-bikes as Electric Bicycles, and applies the same laws as for bicyces, except that:

- Local municipalities or other agencies that have jurisdiction over bike paths may prohibit or otherwise regulate them. So for example, the bike path that benb mentioned as having a lot of bike accidents could ban e-bikes. However, I have not heard of e-bikes being banned on any Mass. bike paths.

- E-bikes are banned from natural surface trails that are off-limit to motorized vehicles (such as conservation paths and hiking trails). (For that matter, there are almost no publicly owned off-road trails in New England that allow e-bikes)

However Massachusetts does not recognize Class 3 e-bikes, and instead they fall under the category of Motorized Bicycles (which is the legacy category for mopeds and many motor scooters). This means that state law requires that Class 3 e-bkes need to be registered and display a number plate, can not be operated on an off-road bike path, can not be operated by anyone under 16, the operator must have a operators license (a motorcycle or automobile license will do), and the operator must wear a DOT approved helmet. Despite these requirements, I've never seen a Class-3 e-bike with a license plate, nor the rider wearing a DOT helmet, nor have I heard of any rider being ticketed for any infractions of these requirements.

There are several bike shops in the area that sell Class 3 e-bikes, such as the Trek Domane+, the Specialized Turbo Creo and the Cervelo Rouvida. But I've never heard of any of these shops spelling out the legal requirements to potential customers, or even having a license plate installed or lending the customers a DOT helmet when they are taken for a test ride.

Class 1, 2, 3 is outdated. Need to focus more on power output, as well as ensuring cargo bikes protections are kept.

[dgauthier]

IMHO, creating a new classification for e-bikes (motorized bicycles) was a mistake, and the current controversies in CA and elsewhere are the result of that mistake.

As unterhausen pointed out, E-bikes are mopeds. The Class 1,2,3 rating does nothing to solve the problem of improperly operated vehicles. If e-bikes had been uniformly subject to the laws that apply to mopeds (motorcycle license, dmv registartion, insurance, etc.) none of the current problems would be happening.

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by jm714

...
In my city there are 70,000 residents. Last time I talked to the police chief he has 5/6 officers on patrol at a time. One of them Monday-Friday is a motor officer whose sole duty is traffic enforcement. E-bikes aren’t a priority. So ordinances will be passed but enforcement wont happen.

And as I said, on an ebike it’s pretty easy to ditch the cops as the kids have figured out.

This will all die down once the police realize they need to equip themselves with high powered e-bikes, and there WILL be an industry to supply them.

[jm714]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

This will all die down once the police realize they need to equip themselves with high powered e-bikes, and there WILL be an industry to supply them.

That will be interesting to see happen, however, many police departments have implemented policies about high speed pursuits and to what extent do they get into them. How those policies translate to e-bike pursuits will also be interesting.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

IMHO, creating an new classification for e-bikes (motorized bicycles) was a mistake, and the current controversies in CA and elsewhere are the result of that mistake.

As unterhausen pointed out, E-bikes are mopeds. The Class 1,2,3 rating does nothing to solve the problem of improperly operated vehicles. If e-bikes had been uniformly subject to the laws that apply to mopeds (motorcycle license, dmv registartion, insurance, etc.) none of the current problems would be happening.

Got to love some legislative capture.

[windsurfer]

Originally Posted by IJWS

Lots of comments, has anybody been to Santa Barbara recently? All of the kids get around on e-bikes--and there's a lot of kids there. I am guessing the local laws were written by a group of concerned parents.

Lived there for 35 years... lots of bike hate in that greedy town

[windsurfer]

Originally Posted by BumbleBeeDave

You can bet this is just like hundreds of laws across the country that are enforced only when the rider happens to be the wrong color or ethnicity.

BBD

From the independent article, tailored for profiling:

Assistant City Attorney John Doimas explained that law enforcement would be able to use discretion for citations, and that most of the changes were already mirrored in the vehicle code, common California guidelines, and policies established in the emergency State Street ordinance in March 2023. What’s different, he explained, are the tools allowing for more conversation and clear education about violations.

Doimas said that officers would use the “reasonable person standard,” which allows for certain actions that were technically illegal, as long as they weren’t causing an immediate danger.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by buddybikes

Class 1, 2, 3 is outdated. Need to focus more on power output, as well as ensuring cargo bikes protections are kept.

The e-bike classes do have a power limit - although to my mind, the power limit is too high. All 3 federally recognized e-bike classes have a maximum power limitation of 750 Wats (approx. 1 horsepower). Without a speed governor (or if the governor is defeated), this is enough power to potentially propel an e-bike to about 30 mph.

The e-bike definitions used in most of the rest of the world are far more sensible. Most countries limit e-bikes to a 15 mph maximum assist speed, and 250 Watts.

[krooj]

Originally Posted by windsurfer

Lived there for 35 years... lots of bike hate in that greedy town

Yep - I expect this ordinance will be very selectively applied by law enforcement: it kinda reads like a way to keep UCSB eBike kids in check rather than a tool to reel in group rides that pass through Cabrillo.

While I had a fairly nice life living there for a few years, my wife thinks SB has, "all the personality of a golf course", and each time we go down for a weekend, I'm more and more inclined to agree with her. SB drivers are outright hateful towards cyclists; much more so than anything I've encountered in SF or Santa Cruz, but somehow not as hateful as Marin drivers.

[froze]

Originally Posted by BumbleBeeDave

--ordinance calls them "electronic bicycles."

--7. Engaging in racing or speed contests while riding on a public street, public right of away, sidewalk, bicycle path, lane, or trail . . . The county and/or town line sprint is not outlawed!

--8. Intentionally swerving or riding around stopped or slowed traffic . . . so no passing on the right?

--10. Operating a bicycle or e-conveyance at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions then existing taking into account the weather, pedestrian and vehicular traffic, and the surface and width of the sidewalk or roadway. . . . Seems like it would be dependent on the skill of the operator.

--C. All bicycles and electric bicycles shall have reflectors affixed to both the front and back wheels and on the rear of the bicycle or electric bicycle. . . . Tailor made for profiling.

I don't see anything in this that prohibits a "group ride." Of course if it did, they would have to give a definition of what constitutes a "group."

You can bet this is just like hundreds of laws across the country that are enforced only when the rider happens to be the wrong color or ethnicity.

BBD

I was cool with what you said till you made that immature last statement.

[jm714]

Originally Posted by krooj

Yep - I expect this ordinance will be very selectively applied by law enforcement: it kinda reads like a way to keep UCSB eBike kids in check rather than a tool to reel in group rides that pass through Cabrillo.

While I had a fairly nice life living there for a few years, my wife thinks SB has, "all the personality of a golf course", and each time we go down for a weekend, I'm more and more inclined to agree with her. SB drivers are outright hateful towards cyclists; much more so than anything I've encountered in SF or Santa Cruz, but somehow not as hateful as Marin drivers.

Really? Everytime I go to SB I take my bike and haven’t had an issue, plus the weather is some of the best in California for riding.