Ot - usmnt

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by echappist

There may be superficial similarities (in that the U.S. won the Gold Cup during a year when they were trying to qualify), but the similarities end there.

The most talented ever seen? Really? Perhaps true at the time, but how many were at the time (as opposed to had been during some part of their careers) starter/impact subs on Champions League caliber teams?

Brooks played for Hertha Berlin (perennial underachiever) and Wolfsburg (who did jack all and was almost relegated after De Bruyne left, until this past year, that is); Pulisic was the only player with bona fides. Jones had played on Schalke's CL squads but was 3-4 years past his prime. Dempsey was an MLSer (can't remember if he has ever played in the Champions League, though he did drag Fulham into the Europa League final some eight years earlier). A lot of past-it players playing with a bunch of MLSers and players on midtable (if not lower teams). Howard was past his prime.

Now evaluate the following.

-----------------------Steffen--------------------
Dest/Cannon---Brooks-----Richards---Robinson/Dest
----------McKennie-------Adams------
----------Pulisic--------Reyna--------Weah
---------------------Hoppe/Siebatcheu-------------

In terms of current players playing at a Champions League caliber.

Dest plays for this club that mes que un club.
Brooks (a mainstay of Wolfsburg) qualified for the CL.
Richards has played in the CL; he is loaned out to a midtable Bundesliga team.
McKennie starts for Vecchia Signora.
Adams plays for for Rasenball; even scored a goal against Atletico and helping his team to the 2019-2020 UCL semifinal.
Pulisic, well if you don't know, then we shouldn't be talking about soccer.
Reyna plays for BvB.
Weah helped his team dethrone PSG and become French champions. That means UCL for the upcoming season.

So that's eight out of the first-choice eleven who have had or will have significant UCL experience.

Steffen actually played in a few UCL matches, but those were meaningless.

Which leaves us with Cannon, Robinson, and Siebatcheu. Cannon plays on a midtable Portuguese side; Robinson was headed to AC Milan until he failed a physical and was one of the few bright spots on Fulham. Hoppe was one of the few bright spots on Schalke, and Siebatcheu plays for the Swiss champion (likely to have at least EL minutes).

And don't forget Musa (Valencia) and Aaronsen (Austrian champion, will see at least EL minutes, if not UCL minutes ). Horvath has also played in UCL group stages.

You could basically fill that entire first 11 with players who are seeing significant minutes in the top-5 European Leagues. And the best part is that most of the players are under the age of 25 and will improve.

And lastly, let's not forget, the MNT team yesterday was at best a B-squad. The El Tri squad included three starters with UCL experiences and one sub with UCL experience. El Tri played at a venue that was at least neutral, if not favoring Mexico. And they still couldn't capitalize.

And the guy they hired to run the whole thing's most notable achievement is some decent years with the Columbus Crew. As talented as the kids may be, I have very little faith in the nepotism hire seeing this group through when the chips are really down.

Jurgen was not a perfect manager by any stretch, but one thing he got right and we're seeing the fruits of now is getting these kids outta the MLS system as soon as possible, and into actual top flight European leagues.

[JedB]

You forgot Sebastian Lletget with quite a bit of experience at West Ham, and now at LA. Galaxy. While older, still pretty decent.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

And the guy they hired to run the whole thing's most notable achievement is some decent years with the Columbus Crew. As talented as the kids may be, I have very little faith in the nepotism hire seeing this group through when the chips are really down.

Jurgen was not a perfect manager by any stretch, but one thing he got right and we're seeing the fruits of now is getting these kids outta the MLS system as soon as possible, and into actual top flight European leagues.

No disagreement there about what Klinsmann did for the technical side of things.

But lest we forget, Klinsmann also had some serious f*** ups. For instance, he started that game against El Tri with a back three, when the team really wasn't comfortable with it, and thereby necessitating a switch to a 4-4-2 barely 30 minutes into the game (which is quite the repudiation of the original tactic).

I also won't argue against the hypothesis that this team would do better under a competent coach, but performance is multi-faceted, and it's a lot harder to f*** it up with such a talented group than it is with a group primarily composed of players who are past it.

[traveling_light]

Great tournament. Really happy for this group to go out and prove themselves. Lots of fun to watch.

Looking forward to WC, saying we qualify. The lack of an established #9 makes me nervous for international competition. Strong midfield and a few guys to play up top, but none proven as a consistent goal scoring 9.

Either way, Im really excited for the future.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by echappist

There may be superficial similarities (in that the U.S. won the Gold Cup during a year when they were trying to qualify), but the similarities end there.

The most talented ever seen? Really? Perhaps true at the time, but how many were at the time (as opposed to had been during some part of their careers) starter/impact subs on Champions League caliber teams?

Brooks played for Hertha Berlin (perennial underachiever) and Wolfsburg (who did jack all and was almost relegated after De Bruyne left, until this past year, that is); Pulisic was the only player with bona fides. Jones had played on Schalke's CL squads but was 3-4 years past his prime. Dempsey was an MLSer (can't remember if he has ever played in the Champions League, though he did drag Fulham into the Europa League final some eight years earlier). A lot of past-it players playing with a bunch of MLSers and players on midtable (if not lower teams). Howard was past his prime.

Now evaluate the following.

-----------------------Steffen--------------------
Dest/Cannon---Brooks-----Richards---Robinson/Dest
----------McKennie-------Adams------
----------Pulisic--------Reyna--------Weah
---------------------Hoppe/Siebatcheu-------------

In terms of current players playing at a Champions League caliber.

Dest plays for this club that mes que un club.
Brooks (a mainstay of Wolfsburg) qualified for the CL.
Richards has played in the CL; he is loaned out to a midtable Bundesliga team.
McKennie starts for Vecchia Signora.
Adams plays for for Rasenball; even scored a goal against Atletico and helping his team to the 2019-2020 UCL semifinal.
Pulisic, well if you don't know, then we shouldn't be talking about soccer.
Reyna plays for BvB.
Weah helped his team dethrone PSG and become French champions. That means UCL for the upcoming season.

So that's eight out of the first-choice eleven who have had or will have significant UCL experience.

Steffen actually played in a few UCL matches, but those were meaningless.

Which leaves us with Cannon, Robinson, and Siebatcheu. Cannon plays on a midtable Portuguese side; Robinson was headed to AC Milan until he failed a physical and was one of the few bright spots on Fulham. Hoppe was one of the few bright spots on Schalke, and Siebatcheu plays for the Swiss champion (likely to have at least EL minutes).

And don't forget Musa (Valencia) and Aaronsen (Austrian champion, will see at least EL minutes, if not UCL minutes ). Horvath has also played in UCL group stages.

You could basically fill that entire first 11 with players who are seeing significant minutes in the top-5 European Leagues. And the best part is that most of the players are under the age of 25 and will improve.

And lastly, let's not forget, the MNT team yesterday was at best a B-squad. The El Tri squad included three starters with UCL experiences and one sub with UCL experience. El Tri played at a venue that was at least neutral, if not favoring Mexico. And they still couldn't capitalize.

Well said.

I would argue that Berhalter today has improved significantly. He reminds me more of Bob Bradley vice Jurgen Klinsmann (and that frankly is a compliment). GB has figured out how to adjust tactically after the game has started, something I think he failed to do at first. I would argue he is a better man manager than JK as well.

Last night showed that he could maximize admittedly a weaker side against a pretty formidable El Tri starting 11. After a grueling set of matches leading up to the final.

I wasn't a GB fan at first. But I will give the man his due -- he has delivered hardware & has the USMNT going in the right direction. Well done.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

My very, very distant armchair perspective is that Mexico has been a good coach away from being a good team for years now.

That change might now be closer than you think - smart money says that Martino will be gone soon.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by wc1934

That change might now be closer than you think - smart money says that Martino will be gone soon.

And replaced by whom?

I mean, they could get the grandmaster, Marcelo Bielsa, but I doubt Bielsa would want to leave Leeds

[BobC]

Originally Posted by echappist

And replaced by whom?

I mean, they could get the grandmaster, Marcelo Bielsa, but I doubt Bielsa would want to leave Leeds

I hear Frank DeBoer is available. LOL.

[Waldo62]

Let's hope the team's play in the final 89 minutes of the Canada game was an aberration.

[echappist]

And as if the future isn't looking bright enough.

Joe Scally, a right-footed outside back just went 90 minutes playing as a left back against Bayern München, and he is only 18. In the process, he had to guard against wing wizards such as Comman, Sané (okay, he's a bit shyte ATM), and Gnabry.

And the thing is, I think I might have heard about him before last Friday, but nothing really registered. Playing full 90 minutes, helping to hold the defending champ to only one goal is something else.

Basically, if he continues with his development, he'd frees up Tyler Adams to do what he does best, playing CM/ CDM.

This would also push the likes of Robinson, Cannon, and Yedlin to up their respective games.

[Beldar77]

Originally Posted by echappist

And as if the future isn't looking bright enough.

Joe Scally, a right-footed outside back just went 90 minutes playing as a left back against Bayern München, and he is only 18. In the process, he had to guard against wing wizards such as Comman, Sané (okay, he's a bit shyte ATM), and Gnabry.

And the thing is, I think I might have heard about him before last Friday, but nothing really registered. Playing full 90 minutes, helping to hold the defending champ to only one goal is something else.

Basically, if he continues with his development, he'd frees up Tyler Adams to do what he does best, playing CM/ CDM.

This would also push the likes of Robinson, Cannon, and Yedlin to up their respective games.

Yedlin cannot defend space or 1v1. Period. He's useless as a right back. he's better on offense but not good enough to play as an out and out winger.

I think Cannon comes good but still hoping Dest plays at his best position RB. That will free Adams to play his best position. I liked the fight and defensive play of Vines in the Gold Cup.

[echappist]

So, two more players who'll be seeing significant UCL minutes: Aaronson and Siebatcheu

Aaronson is basically one good season away from playing at Redbull (sorry, I meant LawnBall) Leipzig, and Siebatcheu may see his stock rise as well.

Who knows, Redbull Salzburg might actually get into the knock-out rounds this year.

[wc1934]

Looking forward to this:
The US visits El Salvador on Thursday.
Play Canada on Sunday in Nashville.
Then to Honduras the following Wednesday.

The eight teams in the Octagonal will play 14 games through March - top 3 advancing to WC.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Looking forward to this:
The US visits El Salvador on Thursday.
Play Canada on Sunday in Nashville.
Then to Honduras the following Wednesday.

The eight teams in the Octagonal will play 14 games through March - top 3 advancing to WC.

I hate the new format. Sheer unvarnished money-grab by Concacaf (no surprise there).

To hell with player welfare, i guess...

[BobC]

To be fair, it plays to the USMNT's depth and against a lot of the CONCACAF teams who do not have the same depth. While I don't particularly think it makes for quality soccer, but it will be "interesting."

Antonio just announced playing for Jamaica. He's quality. It will be interesting if he can turn his WHU form for the Reggae Boyz.