#16
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I've been to a race where they had staggered start times, I can't remember where it was though. I don't recall it being controversial. But I agree with the others, the mass start and mixing it up with the pros is a big draw for a lot of gravel peeps. |
#17
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#18
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#19
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I think the pro/elite-women start is hard part. Obviously there will be fit men ams that will blow the doors off them or atleast provide too much draft to certain women as an assist. Which is also not good for the sport. Certainly starting a different day is not good either.
I have not done BWR Ca in a few years, but I know one year the pro (waffle ) going on Sat and ams doing wafer going on Sun.. was a total non-starter. I dont know if that how it actually went down, but that is what was presented to me and I never bothered to sign up again Last edited by Spdntrxi; 04-22-2024 at 02:52 PM. |
#20
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It doesn't seem like it, Gravel Locos follows the exact same trend as Unbound charted above - started as one distance and grew exponentially once more distances were added. The first edition has a total ridership for the 1 course on offer - the Pro course - of 148 riders, in 2023 there were 3 courses on offer (comp timed) and the Pro course had 185 riders while the other two had 500 riders total. A huge increase, arguable whether "lining up with the pros" is at play since all distances start at the same time but are staged separately. The Rad Dirt Fest has the same trend, AFAICT it's been run 3 years. Prior to 2023 the Pro course was 165 miles and represented ~15% of the total registrations. In 2023 the Pro course was shortened to 110 miles, it was added to the LTGP and attendance of the pro course increased to ~35% of the total. The Rad has different start times for different distances - so the apparent growth present is still being driven by something other than lining up with the pros. Bar napkin meta-analysis seems to indicate separate fields might blunt the growth of ridership in the pro/elite fields (not distance just the actual field) by a couple or few dozens in the pro/elite field but have no effect or increase the growth in all other categories. This seems to be an interesting (and surprisingly common) type of case where the opinion is "yes" but the data says "no". |
#21
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I am in NYC, and back in the day when the Navigaters team was based in NJ, sometimes they would show up to the races in Prospect Park, and for me it was an absolute blast having the race lined out single file for 40 miles and averaging like 27-28mph, of course I didn't place when they showed up but it was fun going so fast and "racing" the full race. |
#22
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There are also alternatives - rules based order where male riders (in totality or merely by class/field) are prohibited from riding with female riders. Everyone starts together but no drafting, no male domestiques, and no participation at all with other females as created and noted by the organizer.
It seems LTGP has the resources to carry this out without issue but I suspect it does not generate the press and clicks that discussion of other options does. After a few iterations I suspect this will be the normal rule structure in a few years. |
#23
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As for pros lining up....it's cool to have them racing there, but for schmoes like me, we're never going to see them after the call-up and it doesn't affect my ride, so I don't see why it's an issue. As part of the money grab, it's an effort to legitimize the race and draw more people. None of my non-cycling friends would ever come to an event of amateurs, but when you say "hey, some guys who rode the TdF are going to be there" it create an interest you can't get otherwise. As for the women having separate events....I think that's been tried (basically women's competitive cycling up until a few years ago) and didn't work particularly well. But hey, try again and see what happens. Race organizers have combined multi-day events like BWR into a single day to try and ease conflicts with local stakeholders and residents, so I don't see them going back to multi-day, but if there's a market for a multi-day event, go for it. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't work. Hard to have your cake and eat it too in a relatively fringe sport like gravel.
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#24
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Yeah, having some known people race in what you are racing in is pretty cool, for sure. |
#25
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I think the fundamental issue here is that the more popular Gravel social commentators were at a loss to explain the growth of Gravel events - having little participation in other cycling disciplines - so they looked to the most popular types of cycling (UCI Professional) and applied that framework to Gravel.
People see the pros and want to do what the pros do, so the closer they can get to the pros the more they want to do it. Sort of but not really. |
#26
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Don't you think the logistics of this get very hard? Does LTGP already have officials in cars/motorcycles watching stuff? You're almost at a TDF level of problem (maybe worse?) in terms of stopping cheating if you set those kind of rules on such a long race in such isolated areas. |
#27
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#28
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It only takes a handful of motorbikes or secret observers to really police the issue. Even better, racers are able to self-police, and self-monitor to an extent. Not saying they should have to, but this rules-based idea may be workable after some iterations better than other options depending on the event, etc. Many races include lead vehicles for the lead pack. Of course lots of stuff can happen outside the lead pack that influences the race but this isn't a ready made one-and-done solution to the issue. Things need to be tried and tested before best idea(s) become clear. |
#29
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It's fine to make rules, but they may be difficult to enforce, and things like neutralizing a slower field in a road race to let the faster field pass isn't really possible.
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#30
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You just described just about every (road) time trial I've ever done. Which is why there are time trial rules about how close you ride behind another rider, and how long you are allowed to make a pass. And like you say, these rules can be difficult to enforce, but that's no reason not to have rules.
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