Ti vs Steel frame

[pdonk]

I have both a more modern steel frame (2019) and an older ti frame (2005ish).

The steel frame is custom for me with a carbon seat tube and rides much more comfortably than the 6/4 butted ti frame. The ti frame seems stiffer and less forgiving.

The tubes on the ti frame are much larger and have no external manipulation, while the steel frame has a bi-oval top tube and down tube and shaped seat and chain stays.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by deluz

Some more info on my situation. Besides my steel bike I have a 2014 Cannondale Supersix. I don't ride it as much as my steel bike, I think I just don't like carbon as much and it is a short wheel base race bike, so looking to replace the frame and swap the components.

Those are stiff race bikes though. I still have a Super6, same exact tire fit situation. I luv it is USA made, and it is superb machine. I need to donate that frame to a tall junior to race it.

But same here for RR short WB bikes for me. Although I do like climbing on the Nago EP. I feel less slow.

[AngryScientist]

I think if you're going to have a custom bike made, are concerned with budget, and not concerned with corrosion, you can get a much nicer steel bike than you can titanium.

Titanium is cool, and different, and just like steel, it can be tuned to ride differently. I don't think you can say as a blanket statement one material rides any better than the other.

A modern Spirit bike with big thin tubes is a joy to ride and can be made pretty darn light.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by deluz

I have done some more reading on this and I think I have better understanding.
Frames made with Ti typically have larger diameter tubing which makes the frame stiffer. Steel is also available in larger diameters but then the weight goes up. So I think that explains the weight difference. As far as a difference in ride quality I am still not sure if there is one.

Yes, diameter matters a lot regarding tube stiffness. You can increase tube stiffness dramatically by increasing diameter, but then the weight goes up. However, you can reduce weight by making the tube walls thinner - for the same tube weight, a tube with a larger diameter and thinner walls will be stiffer. But there are limits to how thin the tube walls can be before you run into the danger of the tubes buckling ("beer canning"). There are also limits on minimum tube wall thickness that can still be welded well.

That's where low density metals (like titanium) can have an advantage: A titanium tube of the same diameter and weight as a steel tube will have the same stiffness, but the titanium tube will have a thicker wall (by a factor of about 2). This leaves more opportunity to reduce tube thickness, which in turn allows one to either reduce weight with the same diameter tube (albeit at a reduction in of stiffness), or to increase stiffness at the same weight (by increasing diameter), or some compromise in the middle. This is why many titanium frames are lighter than steel frames. Both steel and titanium have a range of variability for both weight and stiffness by varying diameter and wall thickness, but the low density of titanium often allows a wider range of variability.

[robt57]

It is nice that modern butted steels are so hardened that compared to earlier offerings, they are pretty dent resistant.

Isn't non 6.4v Ti generally more dent prone than last +10 years of these hardened steel tubes? Or am I making an assumption that is unrealistic?

[mhespenheide]

For me, it comes down to two factors: the fork and the cost. If cost isn't an issue to you, then I'd lean towards pairing a Ti frame with a carbon fork or a steel frame with a steel fork.

Classically, Ti is a little lighter than steel. But modern steel is quite light, and butted and shaped Ti tubing is not as prevalent now as it was during its heyday.

[CBaron]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Yes, diameter matters a lot regarding tube stiffness. You can increase tube stiffness dramatically by increasing diameter, but then the weight goes up. However, you can reduce weight by making the tube walls thinner - for the same tube weight, a tube with a larger diameter and thinner walls will be stiffer. But there are limits to how thin the tube walls can be before you run into the danger of the tubes buckling ("beer canning"). There are also limits on minimum tube wall thickness that can still be welded well.

That's where low density metals (like titanium) can have an advantage: A titanium tube of the same diameter and weight as a steel tube will have the same stiffness, but the titanium tube will have a thicker wall (by a factor of about 2). This leaves more opportunity to reduce tube thickness, which in turn allows one to either reduce weight with the same diameter tube (albeit at a reduction in of stiffness), or to increase stiffness at the same weight (by increasing diameter), or some compromise in the middle. This is why many titanium frames are lighter than steel frames. Both steel and titanium have a range of variability for both weight and stiffness by varying diameter and wall thickness, but the low density of titanium often allows a wider range of variability.

I came here to give my 2cents, and as someone who spent half a dozen years as a partnership in a frame-building company, this answer above ^^^ says everythiing (and more) than what I was planning to add. Good and accurate info.

Cheers,
CJB

[C40_guy]

I have steel, aluminum and carbon frames all from the same builder. They're all wonderful in their own way. They ride similarly enough that I'm smiling no matter which one I'm riding.

And I have owned multiple Ti bikes...and am building a couple right now. I smile when i ride them too. My Merlin ExtraLight wasn't *dramatically* different in riding from my Dream or C50...all tight, responsive, compliant (yea, even the Dream) bikes.


Fall in love with the builder. Look for someone whose philosophy aligns with yours and whose work product excites you.

Pay no attention to the material. Tell the builder what you want the bike to do. Then write a check and wait.

Whatever the material is...if you select a good builder...the result will be incredible. And memorable.

[Mr steel]

Stainless is nice since it negeates some of the rust issues while still being preety light, my custom xcr frame with custom steel fork + campa record headset weigh in at 2350 gram. Note these were the smallest diameter xcr tubes (I'm only 60kg). But honestly I think geo has a lot more impact in ride feel than material.

[Hilltopperny]

I like titanium for its corrosion resistance and durability off road, but my road bikes are steel. I like the ride of a steel bike the most on the road, but titanium isn't far behind.

The Built and Firefly I had last season were both as good a ride as any other high end bike I have owned. The Serotta Duetti A9 rides as good as steel and titanium as well!

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[pdonk]

Originally Posted by robt57

It is nice that modern butted steels are so hardened that compared to earlier offerings, they are pretty dent resistant.

Isn't non 6.4v Ti generally more dent prone than last +10 years of these hardened steel tubes? Or am I making an assumption that is unrealistic?

The only bike I have ever dented is my modern steel bike - when it fell over and hit a pole on the train. My 30 year old tange prestige mtb that has been crashed more times than I can remember is dent free, as is my 25 year old 853 bike.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

I like titanium for its corrosion resistance and durability off road, but my road bikes are steel. I like the ride of a steel bike the most in the road, but titanium isn't far behind.

The Built and Firefly I had last season were both as good a ride as any other high end bike I have owned. The Serotta Duetti A9 rides as good as steel and titanium as well!

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

I think this more or less correlates with my experience. I think I have a slight preference for steel on the road and a definite preference for Ti if there’s dirt or gravel involved.

[crankles]

my take. I have(had) two frames built by the same builder with the same geo and fork, one Ti, one steel. The steel had a mix of tubing...S3, deda and columbus. I swapped the build kit and wheels from the steel to the Ti. Pretty decent apples to apples comparison.

I preferred the steel. "snappier", if that can be quantified.

[deluz]

Thanks for all the great feedback.
I did not expect so many great responses.
I think it has me leaning toward steel.
Cost is definitely a consideration, I could afford Ti but it would be harder to get approval from the CFO.

[Spoker]

If durability and dent resistance mater to you go Ti.
Otoh, I would love to have a flexi steel bike and fork since I dont care about speed anymore.