OT: Declining quality of new cars & trucks?

[SlowPokePete]

Originally Posted by p nut

But one big problem with Tundra’s is payload. Especially if you’re using it for towing.

Truth.

And a surprising number of people don't understand this....

SPP

[mcteague]

I've only had Japanese brands and most have been super reliable. The only outlier was my 2004 Subaru Outback H6. Currently have a Mazda CX-5 and MX-5. The Miata had a service bulletin for the AC but otherwise it had been rock solid. The infotainment system on the CX-5 seems to have a mind of its own sometimes but no other issues.

Tim

[JMT3]

I’ve owned about 30 new cars since when I worked I did a lot of business miles, 1.8 million during my career with my company, 37 years. Most were trouble free and when I di have a few issues the brands made it right.

Fast forward to today. When retiring I wanted a small SUV that was comfortable and drove like a car not a truck. I purchased new a Ford Ecosport Titanium. When I got it there were trim issues that Ford fixed right away. Battery died after a year dnd Ford replaced it right away. I had a wheel bearing go out at 18,000 miles and had to pay for it. Ford claimed it was because I hit something which I did not. Also had some front suspension items that had to replaced at my cost, out of warranty, yet as it sits now less than 22,000 miles on it. Called Ford corporate and did they care? No and did nothing! I’ve owned Kia’s, Honda’s, Subaru, Volvo, Mazda’s and VW. Will I buy another Ford? No way. Won’t buy a Subaru either since my wife’s Crosstrek Hybrid keeps having little things pop up and Subaru’s have too much engine noise in the passenger compartment for me.

My rant is over.

[mdeth1313]

Originally Posted by JMT3

I’ve owned about 30 new cars since when I worked I did a lot of business miles, 1.8 million during my career with my company, 37 years. Most were trouble free and when I di have a few issues the brands made it right.

Fast forward to today. When retiring I wanted a small SUV that was comfortable and drove like a car not a truck. I purchased new a Ford Ecosport Titanium. When I got it there were trim issues that Ford fixed right away. Battery died after a year dnd Ford replaced it right away. I had a wheel bearing go out at 18,000 miles and had to pay for it. Ford claimed it was because I hit something which I did not. Also had some front suspension items that had to replaced at my cost, out of warranty, yet as it sits now less than 22,000 miles on it. Called Ford corporate and did they care? No and did nothing! I’ve owned Kia’s, Honda’s, Subaru, Volvo, Mazda’s and VW. Will I buy another Ford? No way. Won’t buy a Subaru either since my wife’s Crosstrek Hybrid keeps having little things pop up and Subaru’s have too much engine noise in the passenger compartment for me.

My rant is over.

My neighbor bought a Ford Bronco Sport almost the same time I purchased a Hyundai Tucson Hybrid. We both had 1 recall each - his Ford, at less than 3 years old then needed a new water pump (spotted during the recall fix), which the guy who did the recall said it's a known problem. Warrantied, but Fords used to have a known problem with their transmissions as well.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by mcteague

...The infotainment system on the CX-5 seems to have a mind of its own sometimes but no other issues.

Tim

We bought a CX-5 for our boys to drive...they reported the same issue. Apparently, it is because the SD card for navigation (or something) is very low quality and causes the system to get glitchy...you can buy a new one (about $100) or just pull it out and use your phone for navigation....problem solved (except no navigation maps).

Other than that, it seems to have been pretty trouble free.....

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by Red Tornado

In 1997 the wife & I bought a brand new Ford Escort wagon, the first new vehicle either of us had purchased ever. That thing was phenomenal. A little over 100K miles later, we traded it on a truck for me. We literally NEVER had it in the shop for anything besides routine maintenance. We are very diligent with getting our vehicles serviced at the intervals spec'd in the owner's manuals, I'm sure that helped. I hated to get rid of that car, but needed the truck and couldn't afford to buy it outright. I'm sure that Escort was an outlier, but the other vehicles that we've owned through the years have not been too far off, or at least not an unrealistic amount of repairs in IMO.

Fast forward to the present, I bought a 2020 Ford Ranger in Jan 2021, and my wife bought a 2023 VW Taos in Feb 2023. Both were bought new and each literally had less than 20 miles on the odometer. Bought new this time around for two main reasons: 1) factory warranty, and 2) less time in the shop and the hassle/inconvenience that accompanies it. Truck has 36K and VW just hit 15K. However... in addition to routine maintenance, both vehicles have had their share of excessive shop time for warranty issues. Multiple A/C system leaks, slip yoke slop (that the dealer refuses to work on), leaking head gasket, seat belt issues, occasional rough shifting, misc electrical issues, just to name a few for these vehicles. I was ready to Lemon-Law the Ranger, but I think the Ford dealer figured out we were headed that way and made an effort on one of the issues.

Two vehicles are a very small sample size, and our issues maybe are not representative of the average new vehicle. The stuff happening is exactly what we hoped to avoid buying new. Anyone here had any similar experiences with recently purchased new vehicles?

This thread is a great example of how people have an issue and think it is something bigger. Ford and VW have always been bad in terms of reliability and overall they have gotten better.

[azrider]

Originally Posted by mdeth1313

My neighbor bought a Ford Bronco Sport almost the same time I purchased a Hyundai Tucson Hybrid. We both had 1 recall each - his Ford, at less than 3 years old then needed a new water pump (spotted during the recall fix), which the guy who did the recall said it's a known problem. Warrantied, but Fords used to have a known problem with their transmissions as well.

I had high hopes for the Bronco being a H-EEP killer but man they've really been plagued with issues: faulty CV axles (I've come across three on the trail with busted CV's) sudden engine failures due to valve issues and some reports of fires, malfunctioning locks, faulty side impact airbags, windshields coming loose. In total the Bronco had over 52 safety recalls in 2022 alone. Yikes.

My folks bought a brand new Chrysler Pacifica back in February of this year. They had about 2000 miles on the car before a multitude of problems started happening. Wheel bearings on two wheels, cruise control stopped working, transmission slipping....they're now taking the dealership to court and invoking the Missouri Lemon Law.

[mtb_frk]

Originally Posted by p nut

Well, just last week, I was riding in my friend’s 2022 Tundra. 30k miles. Driven easy by a 55 year old. The truck starts beeping and he looks down and reads “engine stopped. Pull over” message on the dash. Pulled over, turned it off. Sat for a moment and started it up again. Five seconds later, it turns off again with the same message. This happens 3-4 more times. Finally, starts and stays running. Luckily, not too far from his home. He’ll see what the dealer says.

So buy the last gen tundra with the 5.7, if you’re going to buy one. But one big problem with Tundra’s is payload. Especially if you’re using it for towing.

There is a big recall on tundras right now. Your friend should see if his truck is part of the recall.

[duff_duffy]

Between my Celica and Accord I drove 325000 miles and only did oil changes, few batteries, air filter, one set of brake pads each car. At a combined 325001 mile the first actual repair hit, high pressure fuel pump went caput but quick 900 fix. I’m easy on my cars though, both manuals on original clutch. That’s it, I like cool cars but prefer reliable and cheap. I was a valet for years and got to know many brands and owners. If you ever want to get a feel for a car, talk to a long time valet, we got pretty good at predicting which cars the owners hated and which were loved and which would leave owners stranded. I’d argue the valets I worked with would put the Consumer Reports car guides to shame

[zap]

Originally Posted by Ralph

If our next vehicle has direct Injection, will make sure it has dual injectors to keep valves clean from carbon buildup. A drivability issue that shows up on some GDI engines.

What you are looking for specifically is an engine that alternates between direct injection and port injection. Port injection will clean the back of intake valves. Our new Lexus IS350 has the V6 that has this dual system.

All direct injection only engines will have drivability issues if intake valves are not cleaned per manufacturers recommended intervals. More frequent oil changes might help.

[benb]

My wife and I have had really good luck generally with one exception.

I had a 2001 Ford Focus which was a hot mess. I got rid of it without about 60k as the the warranty was expiring. If the repairs it had weren't covered under the original manufacturer warranty they most certainly would have cost me as much as the car cost me to buy (new). It went through about 5 water pumps and pretty much never went a mile without leaking coolant, had several sensors fail, had something wrong with the gas tank, and something broke in the steering after I had already decided to trade it. But the ridiculous thing was the car only cost me about $11k to buy and I got $5k for it. So my hard feelings are kind of mild.

Other than that:

- My wife's hand me down Crown Victoria (something-90s?) from her grandparents, it was > 200k miles when she got rid of it, almost no issues IIRC other than it was an ancient piece of junk
- 1999 Ford Mustang - had a couple issues but mostly fine, but didn't keep it long, issues were covered under the original warranty IIRC
- 2005 Acura RSX Type S - 135k miles, had to have a tailight gasket replaced, that's it, amazingly reliable car. Never needed the clutch done even though I autoXed it one year
- 2006 Honda Accord EX V6 - My wife bought this used with about 20k miles on it. The only problem with this car is people repeatedly crashed into it. She was rear ended in traffic something like 4x, and the dealer also backed it into a light post in the parking lot while it was in for service!
- 2013 Subaru Outback - still have since new, ~120k miles, has had the exhaust replaced and the rear wheel bearings/axle assemble rebuilt, otherwise normal maintenance
- 2013 Lexus EX 330 - Not sure how many miles, my wife's car, I don't really like it, but it's not had anything go wrong with it. Maybe 100k miles? Also bought used with low miles.

My general feeling on the test drives of 2020+ cars I've had and/or loaners, I just had a 2024 Subaru Ascent loaner is that the auto manufacturers have kind of lost the plot with a lot of the computerization. Everything is so painful in terms of how many steps it takes to accomplish something that is a single button press in older cars that might not even require taking your eyes off the road. Of course the absolute worst here is/was the Teslas that I've tried.

I also have yet to really drive a car with electric steering that I really really love. Maybe a couple of the EVs I test drove seemed OK? In general all the electric steering setups have seemed ridiculously too light and so devoid of feeling. My Subaru still has hydraulic steering and in the day when all cars had hydraulic steering it was nothing special. But compared to so many electric steering setups it feels absolutely amazing even after all these years. WAY better than the 2024 Subaru loaner I had.

Both the rear axle repairs, the exhaust repairs, and brake maintenance have probably been about $1000 each for my Outback. But compared to the price of new cars that kind of repair seems like chump change.

[jds108]

2015 Grand Cherokee Diesel Overland - which means luxury and lots of tech. It's been back to the dealer more than 10 times for the combination of warranty and recalls, so not good IMO. Upside, it's never left me stranded. The tech is pretty cool though. Went on a 4WD road yesterday, got to use the adjustable air suspension to lift up the vehicle then put it in 4WD low all from inside.

My 2016 Promaster diesel is more concerning though. Stellantis isn't keeping enough replacement parts available and there are a couple of items that are US only. Lots of internet speculation that this is really going to go south once all of the diesel PMs are >10 years old which is the point that mfrs no longer need to offer replacement parts. It took over 4 months last year to fix the AC d/t parts unavailability.

I'd say unreliability in today's vehicles is closely related to increased features. And I have no answer as to how to avoid unreliable vehicles, other than to say be wary of buying anything made in only small numbers if you're going to keep it for more than a decade.

[benb]

Originally Posted by jds108

I'd say unreliability in today's vehicles is closely related to increased features. And I have no answer as to how to avoid unreliable vehicles, other than to say be wary of buying anything made in only small numbers if you're going to keep it for more than a decade.

A lot of it is the computerization.. computerized features are overly complicated and difficult to get right. And traditional auto manufacturers are at a disadvantage in this area with their mentality that the car is done and the next car is a totally different thing. They need to be thinking long term with their tech platforms.. way longer than usual.

[redir]

I had the same conversation with my wife but about washing machines since our 1 year old machine died. We replaced one that was 20 years old. Our hypothesis? Don't buy anything built during the pandemic supply chain problem.

BTW we just got rid of my wife's '90 Toyota Camry that literally nothing except routine maintenance ever went wrong with it. 250k miles, same transmission, AC/Heat still worked, still got 35MPG and so on. The only issue was rust.

[MikeD]

Toyotas first and then Hondas. I've owned both and haven't been disappointed with the quality and reliability of either.