Anyone with a Fairlight Strael? How does it stack up?

[Tychom]

Originally Posted by raisinberry777

I'm glad you started this thread as I'm currently looking on going down the same path (and like you, I really love the purple).

One of my biggest fears is that, coming from a rim-braked Focus Izalco Max (at ~1.0kg for frame and fork), am I going to hate myself for going to reasonably heavier bike (7.3kg to ~9kg)? Anyone else made the a similar transition from lightweight carbon to steel and lived to tell the tale - and any thoughts from the experience?

I have a Gallium Pro which is about the same weight as an Izalco Max, and a custom tig modern steel + carbon fork frameset. Riding one then the other yeah I can tell them apart but it's not a day & night change. Spend some time on one vs the other and it quickly just becomes the new normal - they're not /that/ far apart from each other. I'd personally be happy enough with just the steel frame - but I know plenty of people who wouldn't be!

I ordered a Secan 2.5 a few days ago to build up as all-road / cx / commuter / maybe even gravel. Expected to come through in around 6 weeks time.

Coming from a snappy but over-built / not super-light alu-carbon frameset I know it's going to be heavier still. Yet not that drastically, I hope.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by raisinberry777

I'm glad you started this thread as I'm currently looking on going down the same path (and like you, I really love the purple).

One of my biggest fears is that, coming from a rim-braked Focus Izalco Max (at ~1.0kg for frame and fork), am I going to hate myself for going to reasonably heavier bike (7.3kg to ~9kg)? Anyone else made the a similar transition from lightweight carbon to steel and lived to tell the tale - and any thoughts from the experience?

I have a lighter carbon road bike that is close to 7kg (naked). My steel gravel bike is is about 8.35 (naked) and about 9.5kg with the pump and big ass bag. I recently cracked the fork on my road bike and have been riding my gravel bike everywhere -road, gravel, dirt.You can feel the weight when lifting the bike but that is about it. Otherwise, that difference as a whole, is meaningless.The only difference anywhere is descending where the steel bike is so much more confidence aspiring.

But I am not a small guy or lightweight. I am 6"1 and 200 lbs and don't live in or frequently ride in an area with 6 mile climbs at >6%.

But at the same time, a persons weight is not static, it can vary by 1-5 lbs on any given moment of the day. Bike reviews always talk about steel bikes, the same way, saying they could feel the difference between a 7.5 kg carbon bike and 8.05 kg steel bike, which is BS.

Here is a great example of one review:

"8.04kg...is a fairly weighty machine by today’s standards, and a lot of that weight does come from the frame – a claimed 1,380g for a medium, about half a kilo up on the top-end carbon weenies. When climbing and accelerating that weight predictably tells. It takes a bit of effort to get things gliding along and there’s a hint of reticence to be found at the foot of climbs. "

That is basically a water bottle. Nobody riding ever says, "boy, I can really feel that my water bottle is empty!". Bike journalists are just so bad.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by don'TreadOnMe

For you Fairlight riders/owners, how was the ordering/shipping process? Painless?

My order of a Faran 2 frameset plus dynamo lights was uneventful. Fairlight communicates well and sets realistic expectations. The quality of the frameset is excellent. The dynamo installation is meticulous. The T and R geometry is a winner. In general, I like how Fairlight almost over-informs the customer with the guidebooks.

[Smitty2k1]

Everyone stop. I've been lusting after a Fairlight for some time now, especially with a favorable dollar to pound. I don't need another bike...

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

I have a lighter carbon road bike that is close to 7kg (naked). My steel gravel bike is is about 8.35 (naked) and about 9.5kg with the pump and big ass bag. I recently cracked the fork on my road bike and have been riding my gravel bike everywhere -road, gravel, dirt.You can feel the weight when lifting the bike but that is about it. Otherwise, that difference as a whole, is meaningless.The only difference anywhere is descending where the steel bike is so much more confidence aspiring.

But I am not a small guy or lightweight. I am 6"1 and 200 lbs and don't live in or frequently ride in an area with 6 mile climbs at >6%.

But at the same time, a persons weight is not static, it can vary by 1-5 lbs on any given moment of the day. Bike reviews always talk about steel bikes, the same way, saying they could feel the difference between a 7.5 kg carbon bike and 8.05 kg steel bike, which is BS.

Here is a great example of one review:

"8.04kg...is a fairly weighty machine by today’s standards, and a lot of that weight does come from the frame – a claimed 1,380g for a medium, about half a kilo up on the top-end carbon weenies. When climbing and accelerating that weight predictably tells. It takes a bit of effort to get things gliding along and there’s a hint of reticence to be found at the foot of climbs. "

That is basically a water bottle. Nobody riding ever says, "boy, I can really feel that my water bottle is empty!". Bike journalists are just so bad.

Pretty much wholly agree with this. When it comes to "weight" in bikes more technical reviewers really should isolate what is the frame/frameset weight when discussing a bike that uses non-proprietary parts.

The Fairlight design notes are the best I've ever seen discussing the thought process, material spec and item particulars of their framesets. Also the weights are pretty explicitly stated.

One thing to remember when comparing frameset of metal vs carbon is that the "supporting" components/parts can end up adding almost as much weight as the frame itself. For something like the Fairlight you have to add the headset with base plate (A CK Inset7 itself is roughly 90g more than an integrated model), external FD hanger, heavier thru axles, hose fittings, seat clamp, threaded BBs, etc.

That being said frame characteristics and personal fit/form/use trump any discussion of weight affecting ride quality. A 1200g carbon frameset can feel like absolute dogpoo vs a 3000g steel model, and can make the ride feel more sluggish if not in harmony with the rider.

Originally Posted by Smitty2k1

Everyone stop. I've been lusting after a Fairlight for some time now, especially with a favorable dollar to pound. I don't need another bike...

I held out for a while but had to bite the bullet when GBP was in the Truss Canyon (~1GBP/1.10 USD). Very much looking forward to when my Secan ships.

[Baron Blubba]

Originally Posted by raisinberry777

I'm glad you started this thread as I'm currently looking on going down the same path (and like you, I really love the purple).

One of my biggest fears is that, coming from a rim-braked Focus Izalco Max (at ~1.0kg for frame and fork), am I going to hate myself for going to reasonably heavier bike (7.3kg to ~9kg)? Anyone else made the a similar transition from lightweight carbon to steel and lived to tell the tale - and any thoughts from the experience?

My advice to anyone who already has a great carbon bike looking to get a bike made from a different material:

Don't get a steel bike because you want something better; get it because you want something different.

My TCR SL weighs 15 lbs, pedals and cages included. My Norco Section S(teel) weighs ~19.5
On roads, the TCR on 25mm Cadex Race tires rides smoother than my Norco on 32mm Gravel King SS tires. The TCR is rolling on Cadex wheels, the Norco on ENVE G23's.
The Norco feels inclines that the TCR doesn't even see.
The TCR is a scalpel, and can dive into hairpin turns with almost no effort. The Norco descends beautifully, but its turning radius and response to quick direction changes is nowhere near the TCR's.
The TCR is probably 10% faster.

However...Most days, I don't care. The Norco, despite having 0 aero considerations and being ~20% heavier, is still plenty fast, plenty responsive, and feels great in a different sort of not-carbon way. On the Norco, I can rip through twisty dirt road rollers that the TCR would only pussyfoot through on its (read: my) bravest and most-in-need-of-taking-a-shortcut days. I'll take liberty over speed almost any day.
I've ridden a lot of bikes, and the TCR is objectively speaking far and away 'the best' in pretty much all the ways you'd expect a carbon superbike to be. But I reach for my Norco just as often, because it offers me a type of fun that the TCR can't.

In a nutshell: If you want/need your bike to give you competitive advantage on every ride, stick to your carbon bike.
If you want to appreciate something different, get a bike made from a different material.

Carbon is Playstation 5. Steel is Super Nintendo. Sometimes you don't need the most cutting edge thing imaginable, like the latest God of War, to have a great time. In fact, sometimes going back to Super Mario World will remind you that all we really need games to be is fun. 60 FPS in super high definition and stiffness to weight ratios and wind-tunnel tested aero efficiency be darned.

[callmeishmael]

Originally Posted by Baron Blubba

My advice to anyone who already has a great carbon bike looking to get a bike made from a different material:

Don't get a steel bike because you want something better; get it because you want something different.

My TCR SL weighs 15 lbs, pedals and cages included. My Norco Section S(teel) weighs ~19.5
On roads, the TCR on 25mm Cadex Race tires rides smoother than my Norco on 32mm Gravel King SS tires. The TCR is rolling on Cadex wheels, the Norco on ENVE G23's.
The Norco feels inclines that the TCR doesn't even see.
The TCR is a scalpel, and can dive into hairpin turns with almost no effort. The Norco descends beautifully, but its turning radius and response to quick direction changes is nowhere near the TCR's.
The TCR is probably 10% faster.

However...Most days, I don't care. The Norco, despite having 0 aero considerations and being ~20% heavier, is still plenty fast, plenty responsive, and feels great in a different sort of not-carbon way. On the Norco, I can rip through twisty dirt road rollers that the TCR would only pussyfoot through on its (read: my) bravest and most-in-need-of-taking-a-shortcut days. I'll take liberty over speed almost any day.
I've ridden a lot of bikes, and the TCR is objectively speaking far and away 'the best' in pretty much all the ways you'd expect a carbon superbike to be. But I reach for my Norco just as often, because it offers me a type of fun that the TCR can't.

In a nutshell: If you want/need your bike to give you competitive advantage on every ride, stick to your carbon bike.
If you want to appreciate something different, get a bike made from a different material.

This is pretty damned accurate and very much in line with my thinking.

Oddly, I used to have a TCR (with 54mm Hunt wheels).

When working hard, my TCR put in times that I've not seen on any other bike before or since - it was indisputably quicker, and the harder I was going, the more marked the difference.

But the actual difference on the clock versus my steel and alloy bikes, when working at a similar intensity, was smaller than you might expect - much less than 10% (probably more like 2-3). And for steady, longer rides, there was very little in it: perhaps less than 1kph average speed, and certainly no more.

Overall I don't miss the TCR; as a non-racer, it was unbelievably competent and felt damn fast when you gave it a dig (especially up short, steep climbs), but a bit twitchy for me at times, and I found it a little bit of a firm ride. It also wasn't significantly faster than my other bikes. But it was a little, and more to the point it did feel it; and that latter bit will be important to some riders.

Coming back round to the original topic, when I rode the Strael, it felt a bit laboured to me, whereas the Mason (Definition - alloy as rightly pointed out above) seemed snappier but no less comfortable. And it was that feel I chose on, which seems as good as any reason to me.

[mstateglfr]

https://theradavist.com/fairlight-secan-review/

Extensive review plus comments about the Secan. Again, not the Strael, but worth reading as it relates.

[zennmotion]

No knock on the Strael as I have not seen one IRL but I'd feel more confident with a very similar Ritchey Road Logic disc without being able to actually try either one first- it's just better known on this side of the pond, more actual rider/owner data points over here to help with the unknowns. My own experience with the rim brake version of the Ritchey has been stellar, it's an awesome ride, second in the quiver only to my custom, and the newer disc version has the same geometry and road feel, just with more squealy, heavier brakes

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

No knock on the Strael as I have not seen one IRL but I'd feel more confident with a very similar Ritchey Road Logic disc without being able to actually try either one first- it's just better known on this side of the pond, more actual rider/owner data points over here to help with the unknowns. My own experience with the rim brake version of the Ritchey has been stellar, it's an awesome ride, second in the quiver only to my custom, and the newer disc version has the same geometry and road feel, just with more squealy, heavier brakes

Disc doesn't have the same geometry (has a different fork rake in larger sizes), and had a much stiffer feel than my Ritchey Breakaway. I didn't like the Road Logic Disc.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

No knock on the Strael as I have not seen one IRL but I'd feel more confident with a very similar Ritchey Road Logic disc without being able to actually try either one first- it's just better known on this side of the pond, more actual rider/owner data points over here to help with the unknowns. My own experience with the rim brake version of the Ritchey has been stellar, it's an awesome ride, second in the quiver only to my custom, and the newer disc version has the same geometry and road feel, just with more squealy, heavier brakes

The thing I would agree with is to not buy a bike for the material. Fit and geometry trumps frame material, be it steel, aluminum, carbon, titanium or wood. Plenty of bikes from all those material that ride like crap (to me). Fit and geometry is key.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

The thing I would agree with is to not buy a bike for the material. Fit and geometry trumps frame material, be it steel, aluminum, carbon, titanium or wood. Plenty of bikes from all those material that ride like crap (to me). Fit and geometry is key.

Its 2023, how is there still no like button here?

[Daveyraveygrave]

Originally Posted by callmeishmael

Perhaps a little OT, but I test rode a Fairlight Strael against a Mason Resolution and a Definition; TL/DR, I went for the Definition. Part of that was fit, but I did feel the Strael lacked a certain zing; as a previous poster alluded to, it's not a terribly light bike. And while I would absolutely agree that weight isn't anything, the Definition felt noticeably sprightlier. I also prefer Mason's aesthetics and European provenance, but those things are subjective.

I'm really interested in your demo experience with Fairlight. Was it at their place in London? How long did you get to ride it for?

This time next year, I'll be looking for a mountain bike, and a long distance road bike. Fairlight and Mason tick all the boxes for both, and Mason are literally a 10 minute ride away from me.

[callmeishmael]

Originally Posted by Daveyraveygrave

I'm really interested in your demo experience with Fairlight. Was it at their place in London? How long did you get to ride it for?

This time next year, I'll be looking for a mountain bike, and a long distance road bike. Fairlight and Mason tick all the boxes for both, and Mason are literally a 10 minute ride away from me.

Sorry to disappoint but the mechanic at my LBS has one. After giving him a lift back to and then from the shop after he mislaid the keys to the shop van at a sportive once, he owed me one, so for the princely sum of a pack of hob nobs he let me out on it for half an hour It was a size bigger than I'd have liked (mainly just a bit long), but I still got a feel for the bike.

Slightly OT, but I know Fairlight are planning on a test fleet (and they're currently advertising for a technician at least in part to assist with that) but I don't think they have one at the moment.

[rogerspam]

Anyone with a Strael use it on light gravel? I asked the company CS this and they recommended getting a Secan if any plans for gravel riding.

I'm mainly a road rider and would like the option of light gravel use/well kept fire road use (I'm in Northern California) at times.