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#16
10-22-2021, 11:27 AM
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I have the Bora WTO45's on my Dogma - been on them for a few months. I have ridden a LOT of different wheels for comparison.
1. Yes, they ride better. Campagnolo hubs are the best out there (my opinion) - they just roll so damn good. 2. I wouldn't say that they feel lighter. My Bora Ultra 35 wheelsets are lighter and FEEL lighter too. When jumping out of the saddle those wheels feel like they accelerate faster. BUT the aero shape on the WTO45 wheels does roll faster - when cruising along they FEEL faster - they hold speed better - also, "because science", we know that they are actually faster. If you want wheels to actually require less watts than other wheels, the WTO45's are a great choice. 3. Aero wheels will hold speed better on less watts. That's just a fact. Light (rimmed) wheels will accelerate faster. That's just a fact too. I have had a few sets of Lightweight wheels over the years - oh my goodness they just spin up when getting out of the saddle like nothing else. BUT, they are terrible aerodynamically. Zipp and Hed wheels are great on the aero. I am a huge fan of Hed wheels actually, but they just aren't sexy to me anymore. Zipp had a history of build quality issues (hubs mostly). Factoring in everything mentioned about, the Bora WTO wheels are the only choice if your budget allows. Lemme also say that the finish on the rims is just "wow". They are beautiful. 4. Not familiar with either of those rims you mentioned above. I am a huge fan of Carbon-Ti hubs. I have had a couple of sets of Carbon-Ti hubs built to FSE rims - those were great wheels. In fact I still have a set of FSE wheels (but built to Extralite hubs). I just prefer the WTO45s. 5. WTO45's. Hands down. No question.
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Peg Duende | Colnago C50X, 2x C59, C60, EC, EP | 2x Vagen 
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#18
10-22-2021, 03:40 PM
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Answers to the OP's questions:
1. For their depth, let's say, the WTO 45, does it ride "better" that other 45 mm wheels. Please feel free to define "better" any way you wish. I'm going to confine my answers to the top end wheels: Zipp, Enve, etc. I doubt that anyone can tell a difference. The physics are identical, the weights are nearly identical, and all independent aero tests show that they are all within 2-3 watts of each other. Boras roll really well, and Campy hubs are legendary for a reason. 2. I have read that the Bora WTO "feel" like a much lighter wheelset. In my opinion, the WTO, at any depth, are quite a bit heavier than the offerings from Zipp (e.g. 353 NSW) or the Spesh Alpinist etc. Yet, I have read that despite their heft, they "feel" much lighter. Can anyone confirm? I just do not trust professional reviewers on websites anymore. Feel lighter? They're nearly identical. Physics is physics. They do feel very smooth and fast, oddly good in dirty air (drafting). That could be my imagination and any other wheel would do the same. 3. Any comparison with other wheels you have had in the past would be wonderful. Better braking. As good as aluminum in the dry although with a different feel. There is a high-pitched soft whistle from the brakes, sort of like the sound of a bomb falling in old war movies. Not objectionable but I wish it weren't there. I wouldn't trade excellent braking for silence though. In the wet the brakes suffer in comparison to aluminum but if you're riding in the wet very much, carbon wheels (for me) are too expensive to grind away with wet winter road grit. They are good in sidewinds. Deeper wheels always means more sail effect, but it's only a small tug and only in strong sidewind conditions. I'm in Seattle and we don't have many of those with all the trees and foliage blocking the wind, etc. I have a friend with Reynolds wheels and he actually hitched a ride down a big hill in an exposed area because he was terrified of his wheels. Boras are vey durable. I hit a pothole at speed this summer in the biggest hit I've had in decades of racing and riding. I've ruined wheels with far smaller hits. The Boras were perfect. I mean they were still less than 0.1mm out of perfect runout. Campy quality. Look at the problems Enve has had with quality control. Sharp edges cutting tires, poor quality layups leaking air. Zipp hubs impress nobody. Other brands are generic Chinese rims of unknown provenance on generic hubs from the lowest bidder. Or wimpy lateral stiffness, or not-quite-trure, etc. Campy has the combination of gold standard hubs, excellent carbon layup quality, lateral stiffness, perfect trueness, etc. And I'm not worried about losing my teeth. 4. Basically, I am tossing the idea of getting a Bora WTO (maybe the 45). Or maybe getting one from BTLOS or EIECarbon (45 mm depth) and having them built with DT Swiss 180 or Carbon-Ti hubs and having them built to about 1250 g. Which option would you choose if you only had these two choices? There is no way a wheel like that is 1250 grams. The Bora 45 WTO wheels weigh in the 1450-1470g range. A BTLOS 45mm rim is 425-495g depending on the model, and that's the claimed weight. No different than Campy or Enve or Zipp or Reynolds or Spesh. A set of DT Swiss 180s is the same weight as Campy hubs. 5. If you had $2000 to splurge on carbon wheels (and you have to spend it on carbon wheels, or else the boogeyman takes the money back), what would you buy?  I would buy the Bora again. There was a similar thread across the hall a few months ago and the answers went something like "Bora...Bora...Bora...Bora...Enve...Bora...Bora... Zipp...Bora...Bora...Bora...Enve...Bora...Bora...B ora...Bora... Last edited by 9tubes; 10-22-2021 at 03:48 PM.
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#19
10-22-2021, 04:14 PM
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WTOs certainly seem to be the wheelset many look consider. There's a reason for that. The hype is real. Really good.
I've had WTO 45s and 33s. I'm currently on a set of 33s on my Kirk. I've also owned Enve 4.5 SES (1st gen) and even older Edge/Enve wheels. The WTOs are, hands down, without a doubt, the best carbon wheels I've owned. I'm a bigger rider (6'2", 210 lbs). The 45s are awesome in the wind. Zero issues with wind even on very gusty days. The 33s, don't feel as if there's ever any wind blowing. Yes, the 45s feel "faster" due to what is likely the aero affect at higher speeds. I have definitely hit the brakes coming into downhill corners that I wouldn't have on other wheels. The sensation of speed is noticeable. As others have said, they spin up quickly and are good at holding the momentum. Simply wonderful wheels. The braking is as good as alum brake track. Very powerful braking with very good feel. Yes, there's a sound to the brake track as it's textured. It's louder on the 45s as the rim likely amplifies the sound a bit. Not as noticeable on the 33s, but still there. I dig it. Campy is known for having factory wheels that are simply bulletproof. So, if you've got $2k burning a hole in your pocket, and only the best will do, the WTOs are the ticket.
__________________
Peg Mxxxxxo e Duende|Argo RM3|Hampsten|Crux
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#20
10-22-2021, 04:41 PM
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#21
10-22-2021, 05:39 PM
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Bora, Bora, Bora! I remember that old war movie.
 I spent a long time debating the value of carbon wheels and finally settled on Bora WTOs. Velocipede suggested the 33s over 45s for my needs and I love them. As others have said, bearings are super smooth, the braking is as good as alloy, at least in the dry and they stay true. IMO the aesthetics are top notch as well. Sure, there are good wheels to be had at lower prices but there is something to be said for a known brand with nearly zero negative feedback. Plus, my bike runs Record 12 speed so I stayed brand loyal.Tim
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#22
10-22-2021, 05:40 PM
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I'm on rim brake Bora WTO 45's on my Bishop. They are now 7 months old with 5,175 miles.
These are the first carbon wheels I've ever ridden, i have Zonda's on my Lynskey. I echo everything said so far. They spin up quick, hold speed very well, are only mildly affected by wind and so far are wearing nicely. I've yet to true them or adjust the bearings. I've got direct mount ee brakes with red Campy pads and the braking is just short of phenomenal. I dont ride this bike in the rain. WTO 45s all day long. Last edited by nortx-Dave; 10-22-2021 at 05:51 PM.
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#23
10-22-2021, 07:35 PM
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I have rim brake 45 WTO's and disc brakes 60 WTO's. I took a pair of Enve 3.4 with CK ceramics off the bike to replace with the 45 WTO's. These wheels are the best carbon rim and hub I have ever ridden. The reputation of Campy making the best wheels is well earned. I will only buy Campy wheels moving forward. Perhaps Corima as well.
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#24
10-22-2021, 08:47 PM
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True.
If i do not get the WTO 45, i would get the EiECarbon 40 mm rims (355 g), build with Carbon-Ti hubs/CX-Rays and get to a 1244 g weight for the wheelset. This is why I was asking of I am missing out on the Campy WTO special sauce if I get the above wheelset. And do not get me wrong, I do understand Campy workmanship. I do have the Bora 50 Ultra tubular in my stash that I love. But honestly, I do not know if they are really special or is it all in my mind. Keep the reviews coming guys! They are appreciated. Quote:
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#25
10-23-2021, 12:27 PM
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Good thread. I've been mulling over similar options. There are so many interesting choices in Chinese carbon, and it is an easy rabbit hole to go down. Still, I keep coming back to Bora WTOs as my preferred choice.
I am a little confused about the 1244g 40mm set you are pondering from EIE. Unless you are talking about tubulars, I don't see a 40mm EiE Carbon rim that comes close to 355 grams. Their SRT20TC26 40m rim is 435g regular, 395g SL. They don't have Carbon-Ti hubs as an option on their pull down menu, but with the SL rim, DT180s CX-Rays and alloy nips, their calculator says 1389g. The carbon-ti hubs are maybe 50g lighter, so you'd still be ~1340g. I mean, that is really light, but still almost 100g north of your 1244g. Quote:
Last edited by Bici-Sonora; 10-23-2021 at 12:38 PM.
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#26
10-23-2021, 01:25 PM
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They are the best carbon wheels I've ridden - I have a set of Bora Ultra WTO 45s. Yes, they are smooth, comfortable (pair them with tubeless 28mm tires) and they feel lighter, particularly in windy sections and in rolling hills.
I think you will just have to test them on your own. IMHO, Campy wheelsets are a notch above anything in the market right now.
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#27
10-23-2021, 02:01 PM
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The SL version of SR40TC26H is 355 g. And, you scared me there for a bit -- they do have the Carbon-Ti hubs in their pull down.
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#28
10-23-2021, 02:04 PM
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Actually, I was comparing the Bora Ultra 45 WTO (that I desperately desire) with the chinese alternatives. Good to hear that you are enjoying them. I almost bought them from probikekit last week. Put them in my cart, had the CC ready but just could not pull the trigger. Kept coming back to the weight differential between the Ultra and the Chinese wheels. The Bora's will add about 0.39 lb to the weight of my bike.
 Yes, for those that do not understand, chasing weight is an addiction in itself. Quote:
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#29
10-23-2021, 02:22 PM
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You and i are having an identical struggle.
A set of these with (i hope) Farsports typical 15% off black Friday sale are holding me back. https://www.wheelsfar.com/kaze-26mmw...24h-p0016.html Quote:
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#30
10-23-2021, 05:25 PM
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Strange, I didn't see these (maybe I filtered out at hookless rims?). Many of these Chinese wheelhouse websites seem enigmatic. Their custom builder tools seem to always lack one option that I need/want (looking at you Campy FHB). Or, the rim you want for your road bike is in their MTB section and only comes with 15mm axles as an option in the pull down. I'm sure that you can get exactly what you want with an email query--but it makes casually comparing different brands apples to apples kinda hard.
fi Quote:
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