"Off the shelf" 650B Road Frames (Low Trail Content)

[goonster]

Originally Posted by bigmatt

I built up a Velo Orange Polyvalent to give a low trail 650b a try.

Very nice.

What pressure do you run the Hetres, and do you have any issues with shimmy?

[559Rando]

Originally Posted by bigmatt

I built up a Velo Orange Polyvalent to give a low trail 650b a try. I searched to find other options, but there are not many that would fit me. If I had the money I wouldn't hesitate to order a Boulder. I might end up with a custom Boulder in the future because I doubt a stock will work at my size: 6'6" 240lbs.

Nice. I sorta thought a drop bar iteration would look like this: tall quill and fair amount of seatpost showing. Looks nice. How do you like it?

Originally Posted by Wilkinson4

Another VO, not sure your size

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/bik/3215713707.html

mIKE

Thanks, but that is too small. I'm looking for a 58cm top tube.

[bigmatt]

Originally Posted by goonster

Very nice.

What pressure do you run the Hetres, and do you have any issues with shimmy?

I'm still playing with tire pressure. I am running 45 front and 50 psi rear right now with tubes and might even go lower if I convert to tubeless. As for the shimmy yes and no. I have a Nashbar sealed cartridge bearing headset in it. I bought a Miche roller bearing headset to remedy that, but the headset is a huge POS and I ended up putting the nashbar back in. A lot of the shimmy has to do road surface and how much I have loaded in the front bag. I moved the spare tubes/tire lever/co2 inflation to a under the seat bag to lighten the load up front and it hasn't shimmied on me. I am sure if I load up the bag a bit more the shimmy will probably come back.

Originally Posted by 559Rando

Nice. I sorta thought a drop bar iteration would look like this: tall quill and fair amount of seatpost showing. Looks nice. How do you like it?

I love it. I have put 400 miles on it in the past few weeks commuting to work a couple times a week (40 miles round trip). It is fast and extremely comfortable to ride. My commute has 6 miles each way of dirt road and the rest is mostly rough and broken pavement. The fat Hetres work great to smooth out the bumps.

The downsides to it are the sometimes prominent shimmy, but front loaded low trail and shimmy often go hand in hand. The horizontal dropouts are a pain when removing the rear tire with fenders, but I do have the lower fender on a spring and that helps with tire removal. The other is maybe the weight? The complete bike with full metal fenders, generator wheelset with front and rear lights, and front rack (no bags) is 28lbs.

[559Rando]

Originally Posted by bigmatt

The downsides to it are the sometimes prominent shimmy, but front loaded low trail and shimmy often go hand in hand. The horizontal dropouts are a pain when removing the rear tire with fenders, but I do have the lower fender on a spring and that helps with tire removal. The other is maybe the weight? The complete bike with full metal fenders, generator wheelset with front and rear lights, and front rack (no bags) is 28lbs.

I was optimistic that the Polyvalent wouldn't shimmy because of the heavier tubing. Too bad.
The horizontal drop outs are a major drag to me, too. I had a G1 Kogswell PR and they were a nuisance for the same reason: wheel removal with Hetres and fenders required deflating.
The new Rawland Stag sounds better and better, the more Sean discloses about it.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Selling my Rawland rSogn and 650B wheelset here.

Going back to conventional geometry and 700C wheels.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by GRAVELBIKE

Selling my Rawland rSogn and 650B wheelset here.

Going back to conventional geometry and 700C wheels.

Gotta ask, what did you not like?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by GRAVELBIKE

Selling my Rawland rSogn and 650B wheelset here.

Going back to conventional geometry and 700C wheels.

Ok, OK, I'm a luddite/poorly educated when it comes to 650b road/gravel bicycles. I uderstand the 650b/27.5 MTB trend, but not the 650b road bike trend.

Compared to say a light touring 700c road frame, with similar width tires, fenders, racks, etc...what are the 650b advantages?

The reason I ask is I sell a lot of Gunnar Crosshairs(poor name IMHO) that become all 'rounders in terms of bicycles. Fat tires, skinny tires(lots of choices), racks and fenders or not, even disc brake options...they really work well w/o any compromises. so.......what does 650b bring to the equation?

[Kirk Pacenti]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Ok, OK, I'm a luddite/poorly educated when it comes to 650b road/gravel bicycles. I uderstand the 650b/27.5 MTB trend, but not the 650b road bike trend.

Compared to say a light touring 700c road frame, with similar width tires, fenders, racks, etc...what are the 650b advantages?

Same or similar OD as a 700c tire, but with a larger volume tire (can be run at lower pressure) for greater comfort, more control and some would argue lower rolling resistance.

You should contact Peter Weigle, he's doing a lot with tubeless 650b set ups, including "shaving" tires for better performance!

Cheers,
KP

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti

Same or similar OD as a 700c tire, but with a larger volume tire (can be run at lower pressure) for greater comfort, more control and some would argue lower rolling resistance.

You should contact Peter Weigle, he's doing a lot with tubeless 650b set ups, including "shaving" tires for better performance!

Cheers,
KP

NOT trying to be argumentative but there are very large volume tires out there that are 700c. The extreme are some low knob, 29er tires. Is the comfort, control, RR differences that great?...because 650b is rolling along in MTBs, but tire choices, frame/fork choices, for 650b road seems teeny by comparison, in spite of 650b road 'idea' being around for a lot longer.

It seems like quite a fringe market, road 650b, IMHO.

Seems a lot like tubular MTB tires, in terms of market.

[559Rando]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Compared to say a light touring 700c road frame, with similar width tires, fenders, racks, etc...what are the 650b advantages?

Jan Heine has written that a 700C as wide as an Hetre is less nimble. I think that makes sense intuitively.

650B is better in terms of TCO, but I think the #1 reason is the Hetre. I'm not aware of a similarly fat, supple 700C (especially one that would feel as "fast"). If such a tire is out there, I'd love to know.

That I'm all ears about Gravelbike's rSogn frameset and wheels!

[goonster]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

what are the 650b advantages?

Where they really shine is on a bike with large front bag. The supple high-volume tire is a critical piece of the low-trail/weight-on-steering-axis/big-rubber handling trifecta.

Yes, this is a tiny niche, but for those who are in it there is no substitute.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

there are very large volume tires out there that are 700c.

High volume, yes; supple casing, no.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Originally Posted by fourflys

Gotta ask, what did you not like?

The ride was just too plush!

I'm just not a fan of low-trail geometry. The fact that I don't use a front load/bag probably has a lot to do with it.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by 559Rando

Jan Heine has written that a 700C as wide as an Hetre is less nimble. I think that makes sense intuitively.

650B is better in terms of TCO, but I think the #1 reason is the Hetre. I'm not aware of a similarly fat, supple 700C (especially one that would feel as "fast"). If such a tire is out there, I'd love to know.

That I'm all ears about Gravelbike's rSogn frameset and wheels!

Is it the tire or the size of tire?

I DO see in 32mm width, Hetre has 650b and 700c tires....

Is nimbleness on a gravel bike, oftimes loaded, 28-30 pounds drastically different for a 650b than for a 700c wheeled bike? All other things being equal?

Plus are these relatively light(400 grams or so) and tred-less tires reliable and applicable to loose gravel roads?

Seems like a more aggressive tread would be better for dirt roads, IMHO. In spite of the nimbleness give away.

29ers are less nimble than 26ers, no doubt but variety of tires in both sizes makes big differences. Some 26 tire setups feel downright sluggish, some 29ers are very 'bright' feeling...

Built some 650b wheels but honestly don't know of the major 650b advantages, tire manufacturer/tire type notwithstanding.

[fourflys]

Also, is there currently a 700c frame that will fit a tire like a Hetre with fenders? Most 700c bikes I've seen will only go 28, maybe 30mm with fenders... I think another issue is toe overlap on a lot of frames... And something about the overal gyroscopic inertia of the 650b wheel/tire in something like a Hetre is similar to a 700c with a 30ish mm tire... I guess more bang for the buck in comfort, etc... At least that's what I've read, others are much smarter than me on this... I really want to give a 650b optimized bike a try I think... And Mike Kohn at Boulder Bicycles seems to be about the most knowledgable person to design one of these... And they're made by Waterford!