OT - Dow plunges 1,175 - worst point decline in history

[echappist]

Originally Posted by mbrtool

I just googled SWOL and it has something to do about how one looks after lifting weights. What are you guys talking about?

I think the poster intended to say SOL

I didn't even know what "swol" meant until it repeatedly popped up on the NYT Crossword

[robertbb]

Definitely did intend to say SOL!

The W key is just so close to the S, ya know...

[robertbb]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

You're still talking about finances, right?

Oh dear, there's always one

[froze]

Originally Posted by mbrtool

I just googled SWOL and it has something to do about how one looks after lifting weights. What are you guys talking about?

It's suppose to be SOL, but I copied what he said! LOL!!

[notsew]

Originally Posted by tv_vt

I can't believe this spike since March. Totally crazy. What is driving that? It sure doesn't seem like it's being driven by reality.

The Federal Reserve has gone to extreme measures to ensure every corporate actor has all the money they could possibly need. The Fed owns $7 trillion dollars in bonds, treasuries, agencies, and last time the market went red, they started buying corporate bonds. There has never been a better time to be in debt. Meanwhile congress has pumped in another $2 trillion through direct payments to corporations, small businesses and you and me.

The market believes, rightly it seems, that the government will do anything and everything to keep the dow in the green. Money is free, what could go wrong?

[froze]

Originally Posted by notsew

The Federal Reserve has gone to extreme measures to ensure every corporate actor has all the money they could possibly need. The Fed owns $7 trillion dollars in bonds, treasuries, agencies, and last time the market went red, they started buying corporate bonds. There has never been a better time to be in debt. Meanwhile congress has pumped in another $2 trillion through direct payments to corporations, small businesses and you and me.

The market believes, rightly it seems, that the government will do anything and everything to keep the dow in the green. Money is free, what could go wrong?

What could go wrong?...LMAO!

Don't forget, that the rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender.

[azrider]

Originally Posted by mbrtool

I just googled SWOL and it has something to do about how one looks after lifting weights. What are you guys talking about?

Holy crap I spit water out reading this....................thanks for that MBR....that was hilarious

[notsew]

Originally Posted by froze

What could go wrong?...LMAO!

Don't forget, that the rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender.

My comment was of this vein:



Though I'll add, if you owe the bank $100 that's your problem, if you owe the bank $100 million, that's the banks problem.

[fiamme red]

Two New York Times headlines:

American G.D.P. Collapse is Most Devastating on Record

As Pandemic Raged, 4 Tech Giants Raked in $28 Billion in Profit (Amazon, Facebook, Alphabet, Apple)

Apparently, the markets have been more influenced by headlines like the latter than like the former.

[kppolich]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

Two New York Times headlines:

American G.D.P. Collapse is Most Devastating on Record

As Pandemic Raged, 4 Tech Giants Raked in $28 Billion in Profit (Amazon, Facebook, Alphabet, Apple)

Apparently, the markets have been more influenced by headlines like the latter than like the former.

Another valid point that the stock market is not the economy.
While the economy contracted as doors shut, the 4 tech giants flourished.

Why? While the other doors shut, he doors at Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google are always open and getting more traffic than usual with everyone sitting at home on their tech.

Amazon - Literally locked down and shelter in place, don't worry you can still order stuff and it will be there in 2 days. AWS (amazon web services) just dominating hosting and cloud storage with everyone moving remote, including service in 245 countries https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global-infrastructure/.
Imagine if they stayed a book selling website and didn't diversify. Barnes and Noble anyone?

Apple - Diversified as well, no longer just an expensive computer company. Pandemics and sitting around at home means you could work from your iphone, ipad, or macbook. They are also in cloud storage, have an app store where they get a cut of all those apps people buy while sitting at home, and handle payments as well now.

Facebook - not just a wall to post stuff, they make money when people share information, view ads, they are also raking in money from Instagram and have ecommerce available. Roughly 1/4 of the planet has facebook. Trap all of those people at home and see if traffic goes down.

Google - Again, traffic, web hosting, ads, virtual meetings with Hangout, Gmail to work from wherever, app store, ecommerce/shopping, again diversified and not just a search engine.

These 4 companies deserve to be doing well. They are relied upon and are more reliable than their competitors. Imagine going through the last 6 months without any 1 of the 4 and the world is in a far worse place without their services.

Moral of the story, diversify. Ask Blockbuster how things are going and then ask Netflix.

[robertbb]

Originally Posted by kppolich

Another valid point that the stock market is not the economy.
While the economy contracted as doors shut, the 4 tech giants flourished.

Why? While the other doors shut, he doors at Amazon, Apple, Facebook and Google are always open and getting more traffic than usual with everyone sitting at home on their tech.

Amazon - Literally locked down and shelter in place, don't worry you can still order stuff and it will be there in 2 days. AWS (amazon web services) just dominating hosting and cloud storage with everyone moving remote, including service in 245 countries https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/global-infrastructure/.
Imagine if they stayed a book selling website and didn't diversify. Barnes and Noble anyone?

Apple - Diversified as well, no longer just an expensive computer company. Pandemics and sitting around at home means you could work from your iphone, ipad, or macbook. They are also in cloud storage, have an app store where they get a cut of all those apps people buy while sitting at home, and handle payments as well now.

Facebook - not just a wall to post stuff, they make money when people share information, view ads, they are also raking in money from Instagram and have ecommerce available. Roughly 1/4 of the planet has facebook. Trap all of those people at home and see if traffic goes down.

Google - Again, traffic, web hosting, ads, virtual meetings with Hangout, Gmail to work from wherever, app store, ecommerce/shopping, again diversified and not just a search engine.

These 4 companies deserve to be doing well. They are relied upon and are more reliable than their competitors. Imagine going through the last 6 months without any 1 of the 4 and the world is in a far worse place without their services.

Moral of the story, diversify. Ask Blockbuster how things are going and then ask Netflix.

Salient.

Was having a similar conversation with a riding buddy about the Blockbuster-Netflix thing. Talk about not seeing the writing on the wall!

[PQJ]

Originally Posted by kppolich

Imagine going through the last 6 months without any 1 of the 4 and the world is in a far worse place without their services.

Facebook is a scourge on humanity. IMO, the world would be a much better place without it. Setting aside the wealth creation for founders, VCs, pension funds, employees and shareholders, Facebook’s contribution to the world is a net negative.

[kppolich]

Originally Posted by PQJ

Facebook is a scourge on humanity. IMO, the world would be a much better place without it. Setting aside the wealth creation for founders, VCs, pension funds, employees and shareholders, Facebook’s contribution to the world is a net negative.

I welcome you to create something that 1/4 of the planet uses, charges zero money for, and employs 45,000 people. Ready? Go.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by PQJ

Facebook is a scourge on humanity. IMO, the world would be a much better place without it. Setting aside the wealth creation for founders, VCs, pension funds, employees and shareholders, Facebook’s contribution to the world is a net negative.

Yikes, from that chair, you could say the same thing about the internet. FB has it's goods and others but communication, when not bastardized', is never a bad thing. Want to create a demonstration emphasizing any ills, like say, in Hong Kong? Try that with your flip phone and call tree.

BTW-I'm not on FB, or twitter or IG or anything else like those.

[paredown]

The financial sector, business capitalization and tech all might be doing fine--as the market suggests. Nothing like free money to make Wall Street feel like partying like it is 1999...

The issue though is the slow and not-so-slow collapse in demand brought about by the large segment of the population that is, or soon will be unable to work remotely, and who (it looks like) will not see their $600 UI payments continue, and whose one-time payment of $1200 probably allowed them to stave off eviction or buy groceries for a month.

The Euro countries that committed to putting money into the hands of the people who could not work--in a sustained fashion because of the epidemic understood that collapsing demand was the biggest threat to the economy--not how well companies were capitalized. In the short term the humane solution is to keep people fed, clothed and housed--and that also turns out to be the best way to stave off collapsing demand.

The US instead spent a lot of money on business bailouts including the the Small Business loans--fraud aside, the real issue is that many businesses could not meet the requirements to take the money they had been awarded because their businesses/areas were still not COVID free. We gambled on a single payment, boosted UI over a short period and juiced business bailouts--because policy makers didn't foresee that this was a marathon, not a sprint--and about now is when the costs of that shortsightedness come due.

Buckle up folks--we are in for a massively bumpy ride!

(The one columnist who I think has been consistently good on this is Neil Irwin, who writes for 'The Upshot' at the NYTImes... here's his last one from June about the "Epic Collapse in Demand":
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/u...ic-crisis.html