OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[Ryun]

Originally Posted by saab2000

The calculations of costs seem to be based on “DC Fast Charging” at for-profit chargers. Most folks who buy an EV will find it easier to charge and far less expensive to charge with a home charger. Without a home charger or other similar solution an EV doesn’t currently make sense for many users.

Charging at home or the office is the key to success. If that’s not an option it’s better to look elsewhere, for now at least.

I rarely use dc chargers in the past two years except for road trips and even that was covered by most manufacturers for some period of ownership.

it was simple to add a 60amp breaker and 14-50 plug to utilize a home charger where electricity in Florida runs about 8 cents/kwh with taxes and fees.

I agree that if you can't charge on a regular basis at home or work on an l2 charger, it would be tough to live with. I see folks at the EA chargers reading books on a regular basis as I drive by. That seems like a waste.
For my part of the benefit is walking out to a charged car each morning and never having to worry stopping at a gas station.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by Ryun

it was simple to add a 60amp breaker and 14-50 plug to utilize a home charger

It’s misleading to say that for many people IMO.

Even if I did all the work myself it would be pretty expensive to do at my home.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

It’s misleading to say that for many people IMO.

Even if I did all the work myself it would be pretty expensive to do at my home.

Recouping the cost of an EV will take years. But I’d guess recouping the cost of a charger installation will be recouped within a couple years, at most, given the far lower cost of charging vs. gasoline.

I paid about $1500 for my Tesla wall connector and professional installation. Cost will vary based on several factors, including the distance from your electrical box to where you want the charger installed. It is certainly not a trivial cost but not stupid expensive either, especially on a forum with lots of expensive bikes and other toys. I don’t say that lightly or to trivialize a non-trivial coat, but it’s within reach of many people to have a charger or at least the electrical infrastructure installed in their homes. So far since I took delivery of my car about seven weeks ago I’ve saved money on not filling up my car with gas.

The upfront cost is there. After those are paid the monthly expenditures are definitely lower than with a gas car.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Recouping the cost of an EV will take years. But I’d guess recouping the cost of a charger installation will be recouped within a couple years, at most, given the far lower cost of charging vs. gasoline.

I paid about $1500 for my Tesla wall connector and professional installation. Cost will vary based on several factors, including the distance from your electrical box to where you want the charger installed. It is certainly not a trivial cost but not stupid expensive either, especially on a forum with lots of expensive bikes and other toys. I don’t say that lightly or to trivialize a non-trivial coat, but it’s within reach of many people to have a charger or at least the electrical infrastructure installed in their homes. So far since I took delivery of my car about seven weeks ago I’ve saved money on not filling up my car with gas.

The upfront cost is there. After those are paid the monthly expenditures are definitely lower than with a gas car.

I don’t disagree. Plus if I finally get around to running 220 to the garage I could get my welder up and running again

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by saab2000

But I’d guess recouping the cost of a charger installation will be recouped within a couple years, at most, given the far lower cost of charging vs. gasoline.

I'm unclear on how you're doing this calculation. AFAIK my utility charges the same whether the electricity is delivered via 120 or 240, so provided I can reach my car from a standard outlet the cost of installing a fast charger would only be recouped based on my time as an opportunity cost?

Or perhaps I miss your meaning.

[username]

There's a tax credit for installing a charger at home. Details are here: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/perso...er-tax-credit/.

[Ryun]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

It’s misleading to say that for many people IMO.

Even if I did all the work myself it would be pretty expensive to do at my home.

Really?
Depending on where your breaker box and if you have an empty slot
I had the plug and breaker added for 350$
Bought a ChargePoint box to plug in it for 649$

I guess if your breaker box wasn’t near where you wanted to park your car it could get expensive but I don’t see where it’s misleading for most people

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

I'm unclear on how you're doing this calculation. AFAIK my utility charges the same whether the electricity is delivered via 120 or 240, so provided I can reach my car from a standard outlet the cost of installing a fast charger would only be recouped based on my time as an opportunity cost?

Or perhaps I miss your meaning.

I haven’t run a detailed spreadsheet but it’s not a hard calculation based on MPG and miles driven vs. KWH vs miles or km and distance driven. 120 vs 240 only matters in terms of speed of charge. A standard wall outlet charges so slowly that unless you only drive a hundred miles or so weekly it won’t be satisfactory. So getting a 240 charger is worthwhile. It’ll easily charge overnight, or actually in a few hours in most cases. 120 will take days.

The charger is a one-time cost. After that it’s far cheaper per mile than any petroleum fuel.

Not saying the upfront cost isn’t significant, but over time it’ll cost me less. Of this I’m sure.

[Ryun]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

i'm unclear on how you're doing this calculation. Afaik my utility charges the same whether the electricity is delivered via 120 or 240, so provided i can reach my car from a standard outlet the cost of installing a fast charger would only be recouped based on my time as an opportunity cost?

Or perhaps i miss your meaning.

nm

[Gsinill]

Originally Posted by Ryun

Really?
Depending on where your breaker box and if you have an empty slot
I had the plug and breaker added for 350$
Bought a ChargePoint box to plug in it for 649$

I guess if your breaker box wasn’t near where you wanted to park your car it could get expensive but I don’t see where it’s misleading for most people

I had to run 110' of wire from my main to a 100A sub panel, from there 50A wiring to two garages.
Material alone for main to sub panel was way over a grand even with cheaper aluminum wire.
Running 2/0 AL through conduit was one of the worst DIY projects I ever did.
So yes, if your outlet is close to your main panel, it might be simple and relatively cheap, otherwise it won't be cheap and can be PITA.
I could have avoided the PITA part by having it done by an electrician, but my guess is it would have cost me another 1,500 to 2,000 bucks.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by Gsinill

I had to run 110' of wire from my main to a 100A sub panel, from there 50A wiring to two garages.
Material alone for main to sub panel was way over a grand even with cheaper aluminum wire.
Running 2/0 AL through conduit was one of the worst DIY projects I ever did.
So yes, if your outlet is close to your main panel, it might be simple and relatively cheap, otherwise it won't be cheap and can be PITA.
I could have avoided the PITA part by having it done by an electrician, but my guess is it would have cost me another 1,500 to 2,000 bucks.

Parts and charger cost me $1,000 and I dug a 25' trench for the conduit and did the wiring myself, otherwise I think the job would have been at least another $1K, just as you say.

I do have one friend who has been driving a Bolt for 3-4 years with just the 120V stock charger that came with the car. It's gonna add about 30-50 miles of range overnight, so with a 250 mile total range it works for them, even if one day they drive 120 miles and it takes three nights to get all the way back to full.

[pasadena]

The vast majority of people will not have the expense of running over a 100' of wire.
The main expense is installation cost. If you DIY, the cost is greatly reduced but you have to know how.
But the materials are expensive.

Also I would not use aluminum or copper clad wire. IMO for sustained use, I would only use full copper. Technically, rated cable is rated cable but that's where I'm at.
Maybe I'd feel different if I had to run 100' of it though. I would be checking those terminals monthly with a torque wrench though.

[robt57]

Research your vehicle max charge rate before over buying charging home system.

I almost shiet when I saw price of the wire. I actually had some 12x4 copper underground cable left over and used it 12ga 2x ground and 3x each run together for hots. 3x12=7 and 2x12=9 grnd. So I went 32A Juice box on 40a breaker and that required 8ga, so effective 7ga just fine.

Our cars take max 6.8 and 7.6 kWh rate @ level 2 anyway, so the 32a JuiceBox on the 40a breaker is right there for Bolt.

Bigger breaker and 50a circuit for a 40a JuiceBox would be 50% more money for a higher charging rate I could not benefit from with either the Bolt or the Pacifica/PHEV intake max rates, waste not.

Originally Posted by Gsinill

I had to run 110' of wire from my main to a 100A sub panel, from there 50A wiring to two garages.
Material alone for main to sub panel was way over a grand even with cheaper aluminum wire.
Running 2/0 AL through conduit was one of the worst DIY projects I ever did.
So yes, if your outlet is close to your main panel, it might be simple and relatively cheap, otherwise it won't be cheap and can be PITA.
I could have avoided the PITA part by having it done by an electrician, but my guess is it would have cost me another 1,500 to 2,000 bucks.

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I haven’t run a detailed spreadsheet but it’s not a hard calculation based on MPG and miles driven vs. KWH vs miles or km and distance driven. 120 vs 240 only matters in terms of speed of charge. A standard wall outlet charges so slowly that unless you only drive a hundred miles or so weekly it won’t be satisfactory. So getting a 240 charger is worthwhile. It’ll easily charge overnight, or actually in a few hours in most cases. 120 will take days.

The charger is a one-time cost. After that it’s far cheaper per mile than any petroleum fuel.

Not saying the upfront cost isn’t significant, but over time it’ll cost me less. Of this I’m sure.

Plus, your EV battery will last longer with fewer charge cycles. You want to run the battery down to about 20% and charge to 80% to make the battery last as long as possible. Discharging to a lower level is hard on the battery and charging more than 80% not only takes longer, it stresses the battery more. So unless you really are going a distance that needs the 100% charge, stop at 80% charge level. For someone who commutes daily, but doesn't run the battery down below 20% per day, a faster charger will allow you to wait until the battery goes down to 20% and charge for the next day comfortably.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I haven’t run a detailed spreadsheet but it’s not a hard calculation based on MPG and miles driven vs. KWH vs miles or km and distance driven. 120 vs 240 only matters in terms of speed of charge. A standard wall outlet charges so slowly that unless you only drive a hundred miles or so weekly it won’t be satisfactory. So getting a 240 charger is worthwhile. It’ll easily charge overnight, or actually in a few hours in most cases. 120 will take days.

The charger is a one-time cost. After that it’s far cheaper per mile than any petroleum fuel.

Not saying the upfront cost isn’t significant, but over time it’ll cost me less. Of this I’m sure.

I see, you're not talking about the payback on the charger exclusively, you're talking about the EV plus the charger making the case for the EV (given that you mention MPG).

As a contrasting case (yes, of course, single data point), I own an EV but even with the rebates I can't justify the fast charger expense. We charge overnight on a standard outlet, roughly every 1.5 weeks, along the 20%-80% guide per above. There has never been a situation where the state of charge prevented us from using the car but, as you might surmise, we only use it for around town errands etc. (which has been the vast majority of our driving for quite a few years).