OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[robt57]

Plates for EV/PHEV cost more. Assume other states too. Worth mentioning in context...

[David Kirk]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

BUT, the EV fans will just says it's junk science or just ignore it...

I drove my EV 50 miles yesterday and I recharged at home to bring the battery level back to 80% (which is where is was before driving yesterday) and it cost $2.03. So do the simple math and say that it cost me $4.06 in electricity cost to drive 100 miles.

Here in Montana we will pay an additional registration fee of $130 per year in road tax. We average a bit less than 10,000 miles in a year so that means we pay 1.3 cents per mile driven. That means we pay $1.30 in road tax per 100 miles driven.

Add the road tax ($1.30) to the cost of the electricity ($4.06) and you get $5.36 cost per 100 miles driven.

We bought our EV6 to replace our VW TDi. Our TD1 gets very good mileage in average use at 40 mpg. That means it used 2.5 gallons of fuel to drive 100 miles...and diesel fuel is $4.60 per gallon here (it's come down from nearly $6 per gallon a few months back). That means that we pay $11.50 in fuel cost per 100 miles. Road tax is of course covered in the cost of the fuel at the pump.

So in direct cost our EV costs less than 1/2 what it cost to drive one of the most fuel efficient cars you can buy.

Now diesel costs more than gas and that tips the equation slightly. And balancing it out is the fact that most fossil fuel cars get no where near the 40+ mpg our TDi gets.

You can slice it in many ways but no matter how you do it the cost per mile for us in an EV is much lower than what we paid in fossil fuel...in our case less than 1/2.

One thing rarely discussed is that nearly everywhere the cost of electricity is regulated and kept in check so that we can all afford to power our homes. The cost of gas/diesel of course is not regulated and our price here in Montana goes up/down by a large amount as the market allows. In addition...our utility charges the same amount of electricity regardless of what time of day we use it. This is unfortunate and unusual. My brother-in-law lives in Minnesota and his early-morning cost of electricity is 1/2 of what we pay here in Montana. This is to encourage customers to use the power at off peak hours to help even out demand. If that was available here in Montana out cost per mile would be much lower. My brother-in-law also drives an EV and his cost per mile is about 1/2 of what we pay here because he can set his home charger to run in the middle of the night. I wish we had that for many reasons.

No junk science, no spin, just real life hard costs of using two different vehicles I have personally used.

dave

[yngpunk]

Originally Posted by paredown

T[LIST]


The best deal I was able to find:[LIST][*]Nissan Leaf (2023 Nissan Leaf SV PLUS) @ $37,020. MSRP, no markup;
[ [*]We would then get the $7500 Federal credit (it looks like our income will be high enough so this will be used),

Note that as of Jan. 1, 2023, the Nissan Leaf no longer qualifies for the $7500 tax credit. Per the IRA, EV need to have final assembly in the US in order to qualify.

[MikeD]

The price of electricity almost always goes up whereas gasoline can go up and down. Not factoring in the increased purchase price of an EV over an ICE and just looking at fuel costs is misleading. Where I live, peak electric costs are approaching 40 cents per KWH and they're raising electric costs 18 percent this year. Glad I have solar. I have a Prius Prime which gets only 25 miles on a charge. However, on my last tank of gas, I averaged 196 mpg. It gets over 50 mpg without charging. I'm considering getting the new Prime once they become available and it will get (I think) 45 miles on a charge.

[Spaghetti Legs]

A bold headline that uses data with a lot of variability. As others note, the $11.60 per 100 miles for EV is suspect. That cost might be accurate in a high energy cost area but you would also likely see a cost of $15+ per 100 miles in an ICE ($4-5/ gallon).

My electricity rate is $0.13 kWh and a ballpark average mileage for me is 3 miles/kWh which comes out to $4.30 per 100 miles. The "deadhead" calculation is perplexing too. I've never had to wait for a charger in 10 years and most of the time when I've charged for longer periods, I grab some food - the only penalty I paid is eating at places that I otherwise probably wouldn't choose (my kids love Sheetz sandwiches though).

2 days ago I drove down to NC 210 miles each way. Left home with a full charge, stopped once to get some extra cushion for 80 mph driving (literally 5 minutes of charging), charged on my Mom's dryer outlet at destination. Went home next day, not quite full, so charged 10 minutes on the way back.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by yngpunk

Note that as of Jan. 1, 2023, the Nissan Leaf no longer qualifies for the $7500 tax credit. Per the IRA, EV need to have final assembly in the US in order to qualify.

Thanks --that's a gotcha--I was under the (mistaken) impression that that requirement had been delayed...

Chapter and verse here:
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductio...-2023-or-after

Edit--and of course, it is more complicated--the only way that you can be sure is to check by VIN (!)--and here's the site for that:
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/electri...for-tax-credit

And--to my surprise, the 2023 NISSAN Leaf checked by VIN comes up as tax credit qualified!!! Banging around it looks like they moved manufacturing for the US market to Smyrna TN (planned 2017).

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by HenryA

https://www.wsj.com/articles/toyota-...vs-11671372223

“People involved in the auto industry are largely a silent majority,” Mr. Toyoda said to reporters during a visit to Thailand. “That silent majority is wondering whether EVs are really OK to have as a single option. But they think it’s the trend so they can’t speak out loudly.”

While major rivals, including General Motors Co. and Honda Motor Co., have set dates for when their lineups will be all-EV, Toyota has stuck to a strategy of investing in a diverse lineup of vehicles that includes hydrogen-powered cars and hybrids, which combine batteries with gas engines.

The world’s biggest auto maker has said it sees hybrids, a technology it invented with the debut of the Toyota Prius in the 1990s, as an important option when EVs remain expensive and charging infrastructure is still being built out in many parts of the world. It is also developing zero-emission vehicles powered by hydrogen.”

Good to see some common sense applied.

The Toyota CEO is stepping down:

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...an-2023-01-26/

[Johninflux]

Originally Posted by saab2000

The Saab name has literally nothing to do with cars.

Nice plane...

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

The Toyota CEO is stepping down:

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...an-2023-01-26/

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

-- Peter Townshend, the Who

[wc1934]

I was disappointed to learn that Subaru will be discontinuing the Crosstrek plugin hybrid. Apparently this is the last year of production as sales were sluggish. UGH!! That was to be my next car.

[deluz]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

https://jalopnik.com/driving-100-mil...n-i-1850031874

That article is total garbage, read the comments.
Where I live gas costs $4.50 / gallon. Assume 25 mpg that is $18 for 100 miles.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

I drove my EV 50 miles yesterday and I recharged at home to bring the battery level back to 80% (which is where is was before driving yesterday) and it cost $2.03. So do the simple math and say that it cost me $4.06 in electricity cost to drive 100 miles.

dave

funny thing is I ride my bike 50 miles and my fuel costs more than to run. My little engine probably only generates 1/2 hp.

my brain will be replaced by AI and my body by EV....
I'm feeling obsolete.

But seriously, just think about how cheap any mechanical work is versus biological work.

On the other hand, maybe my mocha and carrot cake are overpriced.

[saab2000]

The calculations of costs seem to be based on “DC Fast Charging” at for-profit chargers. Most folks who buy an EV will find it easier to charge and far less expensive to charge with a home charger. Without a home charger or other similar solution an EV doesn’t currently make sense for many users.

Charging at home or the office is the key to success. If that’s not an option it’s better to look elsewhere, for now at least.

[pasadena]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

https://jalopnik.com/driving-100-mil...n-i-1850031874

white paper done by AEG, a Michigan consultancy that is a member of and clients in the national car dealership network.

They, of course, wouldn't be biased at all by using numbers that create the desired headline...

These clickbait articles come up for years. It's interesting that "studies" are always funded by oil, or automotive interests that are vested in the status quo.
If they keep some consumers thinking that, maybe they will have won.

over 80% of ev and phev owners currently do most of their charging at home.
If these chargers were tied to a solar setup, the cost would only be in this equipment (amortized over a few yrs and shared use with powering the home, it would pay for itself very quickly) and there would be no fuel cost.

Battery power gives the consumer the power of choice and self-reliance. This is simply not possible with petrol.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

The Toyota CEO is stepping down:

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...an-2023-01-26/

And hand picked his replacement on the way out. I am surprised that there is such hand wringing over hydrogen cars, and especially when we all know that change is coming. While electric seems the front runner by far, its not the only answer.

Thinking different is not a bad thing. Toyota thought different when they brought out the Prius and its been pretty successful.

While changing energy sources is developing we need to be looking at "all the above" and not get too blindered by what seems to fit our brain.