OT - Patriots, again- say it aint so Bill

[soulspinner]

Originally Posted by malcolm

I think Brady is one on the best for sure along with P. Manning, but my vote goes to Montana, never lost a super bowl, at least I don't think so and won 4 that's a hard stat to overcome.

Those SF teams were amazing and prolly better overall than most of Bradys, and Brady has won more than twice the games Montana did, as great as he was....

[unterhausen]

I wonder if Brady will quit before he embarrasses himself like Favre and (to a lesser extent) Manning did.
At some point the arm just seems to give up, along with the effects of injuries

[djg21]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I wonder if Brady will quit before he embarrasses himself like Favre and (to a lesser extent) Manning did.
At some point the arm just seems to give up, along with the effects of injuries

Not any time soon. I thought that if the Pats went undefeated this season and won the SB, there was a chance Brady might walk away from the game. No way he leaves now though. He is playing better than he has at any time in his career, and from what I've heard second-hand from another team member (we share a mutual friend), he works as hard, if not harder than anyone else on the team and is really meticulous about his conditioning and taking care of himself. Brady has at least one or two good seasons ahead of him despite his age.

[MattTuck]

Total wins is wrong measure for a QB's legacy. Not sure what the right measure is, but total wins factors in things like the coach, the system, the Offensive coordinator, the defensive coordinator, the players he has around him, the players on the defense, etc.

It is a better measure to compare across teams.

There are 21 other guys on the field that aren't the QB. He may be most important, but he is not all important.

Look back at his first super bowl win.

Patriots won 20-17.

Patriots got to 20 this way:
Ty Law, pick 6. Vinateri PA
Tom Brady passes for TD, Vinateri PA
Vinateri 37 yard field goal
Vinateri 48 yard field goal

Patriots caused 3 turn overs that resulted in 17 points. They did not turn the ball over on offense.

That game (Yes, just a single game out of 201) shows why total wins is a crappy way to measure a QB. 1 touch down pass, with like 134 passing yards. Total offense for the Patriots was 267 vs. 427.

[superbowlpats]

Well that final drive by Brady was pretty good

[soulspinner]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Total wins is wrong measure for a QB's legacy. Not sure what the right measure is, but total wins factors in things like the coach, the system, the Offensive coordinator, the defensive coordinator, the players he has around him, the players on the defense, etc.

It is a better measure to compare across teams.

There are 21 other guys on the field that aren't the QB. He may be most important, but he is not all important.

Look back at his first super bowl win.

Patriots won 20-17.

Patriots got to 20 this way:
Ty Law, pick 6. Vinateri PA
Tom Brady passes for TD, Vinateri PA
Vinateri 37 yard field goal
Vinateri 48 yard field goal

Patriots caused 3 turn overs that resulted in 17 points. They did not turn the ball over on offense.

That game (Yes, just a single game out of 201) shows why total wins is a crappy way to measure a QB. 1 touch down pass, with like 134 passing yards. Total offense for the Patriots was 267 vs. 427.

All of this goes without saying, there are 22 men on the field each snap. His percentage of wins is at the top as well...cant believe this Bronco fan is debating this but I will throw in his longevity at such a high level, and his ability to get the ball to receivers that are many years not the best in the league. He spreads it around soooo well. So, who is better? Pats fans help me out here...

[znfdl]

Karma is a bitch, D'Qwell Jackson has been suspended four games for PEDs. He instigated the Deflategate debacle

[CaptStash]

Originally Posted by Corso

Deflategate:

The NFL was handicapping the Patriots for the benefit of the other owners. It didn’t work.

Bring on the Seahawks!

And if Sherman tries to take out Gostkowski, he’s get a face full of GRONK!

Be careful what you ask for. Gronk's out for the season (thank you Earl Thomas) and teh Pats look mortal. Seahawks are finally warming up.

Go 'hawks.

CaptStash....

[daker13]

Originally Posted by malcolm

my vote goes to Montana, never lost a super bowl

So, being the AFC champion is a BAD thing?

Originally Posted by CaptStash

Gronk's out for the season (thank you Earl Thomas) and teh Pats look mortal.

I personally stop short of wishing injury on a player, even if I don't like him. Like I would never say, for example, thank you Cam Newton for throwing that crappy pass that broke Earl Thomas III's leg (ending HIS season) when he almost intercepted it.

I have to agree with peanutgallery on this one though, this Pats secondary is such a bunch of clowns, I can't see putting a lot of faith in them to win the SB. Could definitely see them getting knocked out of the playoffs early. But the pass rush improved a little last weekend, they have a good record, for the most part the rest of the NFL looks even worse than the Pats, and Brady is just unreal out there. He doesn't look like a 40 year old barely hanging on and throwing ducks, he is still playing at a very, very high level.

[CaptStash]

Originally Posted by daker13

So, being the AFC champion is a BAD thing?



I personally stop short of wishing injury on a player, even if I don't like him. Like I would never say, for example, thank you Cam Newton for throwing that crappy pass that broke Earl Thomas III's leg (ending HIS season) when he almost intercepted it.

Agreed. Please don't misinterpret my meaning. I hate seeing anyone go out with an injury. I like Gronk and hope he bounces back. I especially appreciated how he acted after that mega hit by Thomas. I also agree that the Patriots defense is shaky. As we have seen the last few years, defense wins the Super Bowl. Two (and almost three) of the last three showed that emphatically.

CaptStash....

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Total wins is wrong measure for a QB's legacy. Not sure what the right measure is, but total wins factors in things like the coach, the system, the Offensive coordinator, the defensive coordinator, the players he has around him, the players on the defense, etc.

It is a better measure to compare across teams.

There are 21 other guys on the field that aren't the QB. He may be most important, but he is not all important.

Look back at his first super bowl win.

Patriots won 20-17.

Patriots got to 20 this way:
Ty Law, pick 6. Vinateri PA
Tom Brady passes for TD, Vinateri PA
Vinateri 37 yard field goal
Vinateri 48 yard field goal

Patriots caused 3 turn overs that resulted in 17 points. They did not turn the ball over on offense.

That game (Yes, just a single game out of 201) shows why total wins is a crappy way to measure a QB. 1 touch down pass, with like 134 passing yards. Total offense for the Patriots was 267 vs. 427.

"total wins is a crappy way to measure a QB" - but it is better than measuring total losses
Obviously it is a team sport. Yes, you can argue whether or not Brady is the best (depending upon your criteria), but the ultimate goal is winning and he has done that more than any other QB. That can not be disputed - it is a fact.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by djg21

Not any time soon. I thought that if the Pats went undefeated this season and won the SB, there was a chance Brady might walk away from the game. No way he leaves now though. He is playing better than he has at any time in his career, and from what I've heard second-hand from another team member (we share a mutual friend), he works as hard, if not harder than anyone else on the team and is really meticulous about his conditioning and taking care of himself. Brady has at least one or two good seasons ahead of him despite his age.

2psi, not 3!!!

[MattTuck]

So.... the league's hometown team gets a slap on the wrist for flouting the rules. Where is the 4 game suspension for McAdoo?

The N.F.L. disciplined the Giants and Coach Ben McAdoo on Tuesday because McAdoo used a walkie-talkie for about five plays during a 10-7 win over the Dallas Cowboys on Dec. 11.

The league fined the Giants $150,000, fined McAdoo $50,000 and moved the team’s fourth-round pick in next year’s draft to the end of the round.

“It was a clear violation of the rules, and we accept full responsibility and the penalty,” the Giants said in a statement.

McAdoo, a rookie coach, used the walkie-talkie early in the fourth quarter after his communications system malfunctioned.

The league prohibits the use of two-way radios by coaches to communicate plays during a game. The drive on which McAdoo used the walkie-talkie ended in a Dallas interception.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

2psi, not 3!!!

3 points! And likely not in playoff contention.

I know I still owe you a beer from the AFC Championship last season. Unfortunately, I haven't made it back to CO lately.

[wc1934]

I was reluctant to raise this again, but since the thread continues, why hasn't there been more of an outcry

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...g-giants-game/