OT - Patriots, again- say it aint so Bill

[Len J]

Originally Posted by velomonkey

I'm trying to fair here, there are so many variables that you nor I know.

The balls, we do know - are initially tested indoors and certified - when they retested them how do you know they weren't tested outdoors. The 12th ball could have been a kicker ball which, unlike throwing balls, most kickers want inflated as much as possible.

For all we know the balls could have been heated, air put in, certified and then played. Technically that is within the rules - going on the edges of bad intent, yes, but technically fine.

Just let it play out - or not, this just isn't the bust most people want it to be.

You are reaching. The 24 balls tested were the game balls. Kickers balls are totally separate and have totally different rules and controls.

It doesn't matter if they were retested inside or outside, (although in the rainy conditions it's absurd to think it was done outside), whatever weather conditions or testing conditions impacted the NE balls would have impacted the Indy balls..... It's absurd to think that ALL of the NE balls would have registered so differently form the INDY balls.


The Officials take possession of the balls 2.5 hours & 45 minutes before game time....take them into the officials room, let them acclimate equally, and then test them as they approach game time to ensure that there are no games being played like you suggest. (This is direct from a close friend who is an Umpire in the NFL.)

Len

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by Len J

You are reaching. The 24 balls tested were the game balls. Kickers balls are totally separate and have totally different rules and controls.

It doesn't matter if they were retested inside or outside, (although in the rainy conditions it's absurd to think it was done outside), whatever weather conditions or testing conditions impacted the NE balls would have impacted the Indy balls..... It's absurd to think that ALL of the NE balls would have registered so differently form the INDY balls.

Again, variables WE don't know - you can not say with certainty that the indy balls were tested at the same time as the NE balls in the same conditions. Why is it "absurd" to think they were tested or checked outdoors - it's were the game was in play. You can't just assume rain means test indoors.

I have never read that - if you have proof please share - otherwise it's variable you can't speak to. Any testing requires all variables to consistent - if not - you get inconsistent results - science 101.

[merlinmurph]

Originally Posted by Len J

Update

To those of you claiming that the entire deflation was due to the weather, How do you explain that all 24 balls were tested and certified pre-game......the same 24 balls were tested at halftime and 11 of the 12 NE balls were relatively equally underinflated, 1 NE ball was underinflated but not as much and NONE of the 12 Colts balls were underinflated. I guess the colts were in different weather conditions?

It appears to me that, more likely than not this came out of an environment in NE where the rules are recommendations not requirements. It's a culture of cheating.

I have 2 problems with the press conferences yesterday:

- Bill says he didn't know about it until first thing Monday morning and has his presser on Thursday & claims he has no idea what happened or how it happened. Does anyone really believe that, with all the power and control he has in NE, that if he really wanted to know he couldn't have easily found out what happened? C'mon.

- In one sentence Brady talks about how much time and attention he spends finding the balls that feel the best to him & on the other he says he couldn't tell they were underinflated. LOL. On a team that has a reputation for succeeding because they pay attention to the small details, are we to believe that the person that handles the ball the most, doesn't know the difference between a properly inflated ball and one that is 16% less inflated? Again, C'mon.

- Every ex-QB/player commentator or writer that I've heard practically laughed out loud at Brady's Sqt Schultz imitation.

Anyone want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn.

Len

Well, my question is, was the pressure of each ball actually measured? My guess is that refs look at the balls, pick up a few, give 'em a squeeze, and that's it. Just a hunch. I am seriously doubting that the ref weighs, measures, and checks the pressure on every ball. That would explain the NFL's weak reaction to this whole affair. Nobody ever cared and nobody ever measured, weighed and checked. They don't want to expose the refs. Just a hunch.

Do you really think Bill has any idea where the balls come from and what the whole procedure is supposed to be with the game balls? That task is so out of his realm. That's like asking my CEO ($20+ billion company) for a new PC.

[MattTuck]

So, this reminds me of the Reddit discussion of the Serial Podcast. I've been following that thing as a casual observer (as opposed to an active participant) since I binge listened to the podcast before christmas.

It is actually pretty impressive what the "wisdom of the crowd" can come up with.

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

So, this reminds me of the Reddit discussion of the Serial Podcast. I've been following that thing as a casual observer (as opposed to an active participant) since I binge listened to the podcast before christmas.

It is actually pretty impressive what the "wisdom of the crowd" can come up with.

Yea, except the boston marathon bomber. Worlds off on that one and people, literally, died. But, yes, it's funny - BC physics professor throws forth math that says "no way, they had to let the air out" - BU Physics professor throws out math that shows "easy, here is how you lose 2.0 psi without doing anything."

Really, I think if anything this show how lax the NFL is - most people are like "they supply their own balls?!?!?!"

[merlinmurph]

An excerpt from NBC news talking to a former NFL team ball boy:

Two hours before kickoff, he would bring the balls to the referees' locker room for inspection.

"I recall them having a pressure gauge in the locker room, but most often they just squeezed the balls, turned them over in their hands a few times each, and inspected the laces. I don't recall them ever rejecting one of our balls," he said.

Just sayin'

[DukeHorn]

Peter King finally coming out:

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:
The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.
All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.
All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.
The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflat...per-bowl-xlix/

Again, expect a 3rd rounder lost at the very least

[93legendti]

How many points were affected?

Did the balls change the outcome of the game?

[DukeHorn]

Originally Posted by merlinmurph

Well, my question is, was the pressure of each ball actually measured? My guess is that refs look at the balls, pick up a few, give 'em a squeeze, and that's it. Just a hunch. I am seriously doubting that the ref weighs, measures, and checks the pressure on every ball. That would explain the NFL's weak reaction to this whole affair. Nobody ever cared and nobody ever measured, weighed and checked. They don't want to expose the refs. Just a hunch.

Do you really think Bill has any idea where the balls come from and what the whole procedure is supposed to be with the game balls? That task is so out of his realm. That's like asking my CEO ($20+ billion company) for a new PC.

Bad analogy considering QBs consider the ball condition to be of paramount importance and it was Brady himself who petitioned for the clubs to bring their own balls to games back in 2006 and everyone's awareness of Bill's OCD tendencies. Try again.

[DukeHorn]

Originally Posted by 93legendti

How many points were affected?

Did the balls change the outcome of the game?

Ah, you come from the school that cheating is ok so long as the game wasn't affected. Sadly, that's not how enforcing regulations work (in most cases). Again, they're not going to make the Pats forfeit the game but there will be a penalty.

[Tom]

Did I read that right? The ones NE used in the second half were inflated correctly? Isn't that when they outscored Indianapolis 28-0? Wow, imagine what they would have done if they had decent footballs to use all first half.

Of course, nobody could tackle Blount no matter what ball they gave him.

[djg21]

Investigation remains ongoing.

"While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated."

http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-t...-investigation

At what point did the Pats outscore the Colts 28-0?

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that John Harbaugh or the NFL itself was behind this whole thing. When could have a teenage ballboy had an opportunity to deflate 11-12 footballs under the watchful eye of the NFL's skilled officiating staff and God knows how many members of the media and CBS cameras?

[velomonkey]

Originally Posted by DukeHorn

Peter King finally coming out:

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:
The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.
All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.
All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.
The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflat...per-bowl-xlix/

Again, expect a 3rd rounder lost at the very least

If this is true, and we're gonna need more than this guy's "sources" then yea, the balls were clearly tampered with - I'm hard pressed to think this is true as the NFL would have a ruling right away - you don't need any more evidence - it's all there - prior to game, good - halftime, not good - end of game, good. Busted. So why the wait, then?

I suspect it's cause they don't have a clue.

[MattTuck]

There have to be more cameras at an NFL game than virtually any other place in the world. I demand to see the Zupruder film of the deflation!

"Get the spider cam over on the NE sideline and zoom in on that ball boy deflating those balls"

[Len J]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...investigation/

Also check MMQB for how the refs do this.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/06/peter-...-part-three/2/