Look 585

[picstloup]

reading around the internet it seems some have changed the expander/compression plug for something longer like a specialized, or bbb, just something longer to shore up the inside of the forks steerer tube under the stem bolt area...

can someone tell me if there is a right or wrong to this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bSnbjHiFXc&t=475s

he talks about the specialized expander as good and talks about the Look/fsa plug as not really being sufficient...

it does make me wonder...i mean the folks at Look who designed and specified the compression plug and top cap from fsa must have known what they were doing, no?

I started feeling, that especially as i piece the fork/frame together now and want to leave the steerer length as is until i find a good height for my stem it might be a good thing to have a longer compression plug...

yes? no? any risks involved? of course I'd use all of the Look parts for the rest...

might visit the specialized store we have here in a few days, see what they have in stock...

will probably be another week to two weeks before i can put it all together...some parts came yesterday, but more coming in the next week to ten days...

thanks for help
M

[Dave]

Unless this is your first bike, you should be able to compare the BB height and head tube length, with the headset top section to some other bike and not be off by more than 5-10mm.

With newer frames where stack height is published, it's even easier to get everything right the first time.

Obviously, the short FSA style plug won't work with a lot of spacer sitting on top of the stem. The plug is at least needed to allow the headset bearings to be preloaded. After that, some people remove the plug and never use it. If that's done, don't get carried away when tightening the stem clamp bolts.

I try to buy my frames, so I don't need more than 10mm of spacer. I would use stem angle to add some height, as needed. I've never used more angle than a -6 degree provides.

In the end, I install a thread insert and epoxy to fill the entire stem clamp area, so no expanding plug is needed and the steerer is absolutely crush proof.

[rePhil]

Technology can improve through time, but if it was good enough for the Look engineers then, it should be ok now. I have three 585's all with the Look compression cap, and have never had any issues.
I like Raoul and wonder why one of the big manufacturers hasn't put him on the payroll, or at least hire him long enough to straighten out their processes.
My only comment on your build would be to look for a Look Ergopost.
Enjoy the ride!

Originally Posted by picstloup

reading around the internet it seems some have changed the expander/compression plug for something longer like a specialized, or bbb, just something longer to shore up the inside of the forks steerer tube under the stem bolt area...

can someone tell me if there is a right or wrong to this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bSnbjHiFXc&t=475s

he talks about the specialized expander as good and talks about the Look/fsa plug as not really being sufficient...

it does make me wonder...i mean the folks at Look who designed and specified the compression plug and top cap from fsa must have known what they were doing, no?

I started feeling, that especially as i piece the fork/frame together now and want to leave the steerer length as is until i find a good height for my stem it might be a good thing to have a longer compression plug...

yes? no? any risks involved? of course I'd use all of the Look parts for the rest...

might visit the specialized store we have here in a few days, see what they have in stock...

will probably be another week to two weeks before i can put it all together...some parts came yesterday, but more coming in the next week to ten days...

thanks for help
M

[picstloup]

Originally Posted by rePhil

Technology can improve through time, but if it was good enough for the Look engineers then, it should be ok now. I have three 585's all with the Look compression cap, and have never had any issues.
I like Raoul and wonder why one of the big manufacturers hasn't put him on the payroll, or at least hire him long enough to straighten out their processes.
My only comment on your build would be to look for a Look Ergopost.
Enjoy the ride!

thanks Phil, yes, thinking about the that seat post...once I piece the fork/headset together I'll see how i feel about the Look cap and plug/expander...decide what to do...and like you, maybe just use what they supply...agree about what you write and the Look engineers...certainly they know more than i do...
m

[picstloup]

Originally Posted by Dave

Unless this is your first bike, you should be able to compare the BB height and head tube length, with the headset top section to some other bike and not be off by more than 5-10mm.

With newer frames where stack height is published, it's even easier to get everything right the first time.

Obviously, the short FSA style plug won't work with a lot of spacer sitting on top of the stem. The plug is at least needed to allow the headset bearings to be preloaded. After that, some people remove the plug and never use it. If that's done, don't get carried away when tightening the stem clamp bolts.

I try to buy my frames, so I don't need more than 10mm of spacer. I would use stem angle to add some height, as needed. I've never used more angle than a -6 degree provides.

In the end, I install a thread insert and epoxy to fill the entire stem clamp area, so no expanding plug is needed and the steerer is absolutely crush proof.

thanks Dave, i do have the stack and reach figured on my old/current bike...i will be applying that to the new build, plus seeing what i need in terms of stem on the fork,...most spacers to be underneath at first until i figure out what's comfortable for me...then some cutting...

I am taking this slow cause the geometry of this Look seems so different to my old ride with it's 73 degree head and seat tube angles and more 'classic' design from the 1980's...

will need to get saddle position, set back right...a slow process for me, i don't do this often, but based on the listed 585 optimum geometry, head tube length, top tube, stack/reach on my current ride, i should fall comfortably into place...in fact reach is shorter so i do need a somewhat longer stem...

it's gonna be a pleasant experiment for me...plan to take it slow, make sure of my position, comfort...i even thought that if i feel 'not right' about something about the way i'm adjusting position, I'll bring it to a bike shop and have them fit me on it...but I think I should be able to get there myself...

later
m

[picstloup]

this has become an education...reading, watching videos on the different types of expanders...what some think are good, some think are not so good...

here are two I ordered...relatively inexpensive...the first one is a BBB at about 55mm in total length, the second a colnago around 85mm...both much longer than the original Look/FSA that came with the Look 585 optimum frame/fork...

What do you think? I was thinking to go this way especially at the start cause I'll have more steerer than needed and thought getting this expander to cover the length I need with stem might be good...I'd like to keep extra steerer up top with spacers...

Also, I have recently read that some people recommend a thin coat of carbon paste/fiber grip on the part that expands to hug the inside of the steerer...Ritchey has that as part of the install instructions for his expander/carbon fork...

Yes? No?

200727.expander-0004526.jpg

200727.expander-0004527.jpg

I bought these two to see differences in materials. Also, the colnago expander is smooth unlike most of the others i have seen on line...is that bad?

Oh, one last thing, and the last i'll order...found a Specialized expander for only 10 euros so ordered it this morning...i have read/seen videos that this expander is the best...

so i spent about 30 euros on additional expanders, some I'll never use, but thought I needed to see for myself about construction, length to make a somewhat informed decision...

figure as i dial in position on the bike and cut the steerer, maybe install a shorter expander?...just what is needed?...this is new to me so I'm kinda thinking to go with what feels right...just want to make sure i don't damage fork...and keep me safe too

parts taking longer than i thought to get here, but slowly I am almost ready to build this thing...

thanks for advice, help, a little push in the right direction

m

[Dave]

The model in the first picture would not provide crush resistance at the top, unless it has a very close fit to the inside diameter of the steerer.

I have the Colnago expander, it should work fine, but it's a boat anchor. The surface finish is actually quite rough, just not serrated.

[rePhil]

Is anyone looking for a Medium 585? Here's one currently under $300 with shipping.

[picstloup]

Originally Posted by Dave

The model in the first picture would not provide crush resistance at the top, unless it has a very close fit to the inside diameter of the steerer.

I have the Colnago expander, it should work fine, but it's a boat anchor. The surface finish is actually quite rough, just not serrated.

Hi Dave. I'm not sure how this will work out fit wise yet, but the top area of the BBB is 10-15mm where I would like to put spacers. The entire knurled part of the expander is the exact length of the area of the stem that clamps to the fork. That's what I'd shoot for when building up the bike, fitting the fork, headset, etc.

And that's why i ordered the colnago expander. That gives me a lot more range of position than the BBB expander for the stem height as i play with my position.

I am hoping the fit just comes easy and I don't need to play too much with this, but I wanted to have some options.

short ps. Dave, I was curious, checked the weight of the colnago expander. It's 'only' 24 grams. The BBB is about 55 grams. In the scheme of things, for me, 24 grams weighs nothing if the expander works as advertised.

[Keith A]

Originally Posted by rePhil

Is anyone looking for a Medium 585? Here's one currently under $300 with shipping.

Looks like you might be missing something.

[ddtn]

Could someone tell me what size the front derailleur clamp is for the 585? TIA

[nobuseri]

I used a standard 31.8mm Parlee carbon clamp on mine.

But 31.8 FD clamp of any type should be fine.

[rePhil]

Did anyone here end up with the medium 585?

[Toddtwenty2]

I was in the running, but tapped out around $500.

[saab2000]

Don’t overtighten those expanders. It’s easy to think that tighter is better but even a slight expansion of the exterior diameter will negatively affect steering.

Snug enough so it can’t be pulled out with the bearing pre-load bolt but not much more than that.