(Rant warning) Rene Herse tires poorly designed for tubeless?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Yeah, but small brand strapped for cash aint got time for that.

Or when the product isnt built the way they designed it and there are 5,000 of them just arrived on the boat from China.

And so forth... Everyone loses - consumers, the brand, etc.

Oh, I agree 100%..sounds like exactly what's going on here. BUT, I can't even spell 'tubeless'...not interested in ever having it. Getting wet(literally) a few times when in the LBS trenches made up my mind for me.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Spec it, have the manufacturer make a small batch, test them, and either change the spec of go into large scale production...called 'prototypes'..Happens all the time.

ahh, benb already said it, post 127..

Originally Posted by .RJ

Yeah, but small brand strapped for cash aint got time for that.

Or when the product isnt built the way they designed it and there are 5,000 of them just arrived on the boat from China.

And so forth... Everyone loses - consumers, the brand, etc.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/testing-prototypes/

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Oh, I agree 100%..sounds like exactly what's going on here. BUT, I can't even spell 'tubeless'...not interested in ever having it. Getting wet(literally) a few times when in the LBS trenches made up my mind for me.

And yet this does not keep you from chiming in with air quotes on every thread about tubeless tires. When you admittedly don't know what you're talking about perhaps consider sitting it out and leave it to those who actually use the stuff.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

https://www.renehersecycles.com/testing-prototypes/


And yet this does not keep you from chiming in with air quotes on every thread about tubeless tires. When you admittedly don't know what you're talking about perhaps consider sitting it out and leave it to those who actually use the stuff.

Try me on some sram or disc brakes...discussion group..discuss, agree or not..up to you....

Like the OP? Mtechnica?

In the bike shop tenches for 30 or so years, I have seen a 'fair' amount of junk being designed, manufactured, marketed and sold. Without ever buying it or using it myself. Big and small companies. Non interested 'owners' and those who were really vocal.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Oh, I agree 100%..sounds like exactly what's going on here. BUT, I can't even spell 'tubeless'...not interested in ever having it. Getting wet(literally) a few times when in the LBS trenches made up my mind for me.

With gravel sized tires, say greater than 30mm, I can mount my chosen brands of tires tubeless usually easier, in less time, with zero mess versus tubes.

Mount new tire with hands, leave a small gap to dump a few oz of goop, pop the rest the bead on, thread airshot to valve, inflate airshot with floor pump, release valve. Pump a bit with floor pump. Done. Two tires yestersday in five minutes maybe? Not a drop of sealant...and this has been the regular every three months for the last three for so years.

And then I almost never flat in the deserts of arizona.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

https://www.renehersecycles.com/testing-prototypes/

I like what they are doing here. I like that they keep old stuff viable. I like that they are looking at new ways of doing things. Eventually those $12 problem solvers cable hangars wont be available anymore.... but...

Is this really engineering and innovation? Was there a problem? If there was, where are the strain gauges to measure stiffness on the parts (old and new) in real world use? Are we sure its not going to break after a few years of use or are the customers the beta testers because aluminum does fatigue as its loaded?

This is the kind of stuff I'm getting at.

[joevers]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Oh, I agree 100%..sounds like exactly what's going on here. BUT, I can't even spell 'tubeless'...not interested in ever having it. Getting wet(literally) a few times when in the LBS trenches made up my mind for me.

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

And yet this does not keep you from chiming in with air quotes on every thread about tubeless tires. When you admittedly don't know what you're talking about perhaps consider sitting it out and leave it to those who actually use the stuff.

I feel the same way. With how much you have to say about tubeless you probably owe it to yourself and your customers to actually ride it one solid time on one of your bikes. Getting covered in sealant once or twice a decade ago is not a valid or valuable experience with current tubeless tires. Walk into any higher end shop and ask any mechanic under 45 how long it takes them to set up a tubeless tire and how often they make a mess of it. The answer will probably surprise you.

[mtechnica]

In case anyone cares I did a layer of 1” gorilla tape on top of the existing DT Swiss tape (the gorilla tape is super thick btw) and the tire was STILL not very tight and couldn’t be pumped up without the booster. but at this point I’m afraid of adding more (also I would be shocked if this rim was so under sized it needed several mm worth of tape), anyway it sealed up fine and no sealant came out of the bead area so as long as it doesn’t go totally flat it should be alright.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by joevers

I feel the same way. With how much you have to say about tubeless you probably owe it to yourself and your customers to actually ride it one solid time on one of your bikes. Getting covered in sealant once or twice a decade ago is not a valid or valuable experience with current tubeless tires. Walk into any higher end shop and ask any mechanic under 45 how long it takes them to set up a tubeless tire and how often they make a mess of it. The answer will probably surprise you.

Have no 'customers'...escaped in 2013. Ridden it more than once 'solid time'. Ones that I even set up, as hard as you may find that to believe.

I talk to the guy that owns Vecchio's all the time, and yes, he sets up tubeless all the time and hasn't made any OMG videos...yet...No surprises.

I'm not the only one who has mentioned the trials and tribulations of tubeless, hope you put that 'microscope' on them too.

I think it should be mentioned that the 'issues' with tubeless were started by a guy who has them, uses them..now.

BUT, obviously struck a nerve, since I don't have 'yesterday or today' experience with RH or any other tubeless tire.

Didn't know there was a maximum age for mess-less tubeless tire setup either..I think Jim(Vecchio's) is 50, BTW...

[RudAwkning]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

"Rene Herse tires are poorly designed for tubeless use!"

Schwalbe:

I just setup a new pair of Thunder Burts. Had to use an innertube to seat 1 side first. And I even own a compressor. Schwalbe are the wurst...

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by RudAwkning

I just setup a new pair of Thunder Burts. Had to use an innertube to seat 1 side first. And I even own a compressor. Schwalbe are the wurst...

Mine were very tight at first, but it's better than too loose!

[ColonelJLloyd]

I rescind my comment. I'm not trying to silence, Old Potato. I was hungry and mean earlier. Carry on, sir.

Also, viva le Burt tu Tonnerre. It's all rim dependent, I guess.

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by RudAwkning

ISchwalbe are the wurst...

wait till you try Enve (tires) and I'm generally a Enve homer.

[mtechnica]

I’m fine with it being a PITA to mount as long as it keeps working fine afterwards. My thunder Burt went flat because I pulled half a dozen goat heads out at once to see what would happen. Then I pumped it back up from dead flat with a normal pump and now it’s fine. They were a pain to mount at first though. I actually had to use a small amount of dawn dish soap on the bead to get the bead to fully seat, because they were so tight part of the bead wanted to stay in the rim bed and I’m not supposed to inflate them over 40psi on these rims. But at least once they’re on they are good to go and don’t fail on a week long bike packing trip.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

I rescind my comment. I'm not trying to silence, Old Potato. I was hungry and mean earlier. Carry on, sir.

Also, viva le Burt tu Tonnerre. It's all rim dependent, I guess.

No worries and no problems. Bike stuff, after all, not twirled peas or anything.

[benadrian]

I have a set of Barlow Pass (700x38) Extralights mounted on the WTB ST-i19 rims that came stock on my Space Horse. I've run them both with tubes and tubeless. Here are my experiences.

The tires feel great, both tubed and tubeless. I also have a pair of 35 Gravel King Slicks on another bike. The RH tires, feel just a bit nicer. I've actually been quite happy with pretty much every Panaracer tire I've had. I used to use Ruffy Tuffys as my city/commuter tire and they were fantastic.

With tubes, the Extra Lights flatted a lot. It was rarely a dramatic flat. Usually it was more something I'd find the next day. I also have the 700x28 regular RH tires on my traditional road bike. Those flat more than my GP4000 tires, but not as much as the extra light Barlow Pass.

I've never had a problem getting any RH tires to seat, both with tubes and tubeless. In the couple months that I've been tubeless, I've not had a flat or any obvious puncture. The big problem is that they just don't hold air over the long term. The back tire will last a few days, but the front needs to be refreshed daily. If I go up to 40 PSI, the front will be 20 PSI the next day, and maybe 15 PSI the following day. It never goes fully flat and the beads always stay seated, but it's just not a great seal.

While I love the performance of the tires, I'm probably just going to move back to Panaracer branded tires when it comes time to replace. There just aren't enough differences between Panaracer model and Panaracer made RH tires for my personal level of sensitivity

Cheers!