Rene Herse tires.

[HamFisted]

Rene Herse recently released a new sealant and I noticed Mr. Heine in the comments of another website answering questions when a comment about the need for a supple-specific sealant jumped out at me. He states that the bead of supple tires may not sit as tightly against the rim wall which may lead to sealant weep. This does not seem right to me, isn’t the quality of suppleness related to the casing itself?

[marciero]

Originally Posted by HamFisted

Rene Herse recently released a new sealant and I noticed Mr. Heine in the comments of another website answering questions when a comment about the need for a supple-specific sealant jumped out at me. He states that the bead of supple tires may not sit as tightly against the rim wall which may lead to sealant weep. This does not seem right to me, isn’t the quality of suppleness related to the casing itself?

I can imagine that a stiffer casing *might* help keep the bead more aligned, or maybe they happen to have a lighter or more flexible bead, for whatever reason. On the other hand, the issue with weeping through the casing is not mentioned. I am not sure that is any more of an issue with RH vs other tires, and in any case I would guess that the interlocking nature of the walnut shells that helps with cuts would also help to mitigate that.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by HamFisted

Rene Herse recently released a new sealant and I noticed Mr. Heine in the comments of another website answering questions when a comment about the need for a supple-specific sealant jumped out at me. He states that the bead of supple tires may not sit as tightly against the rim wall which may lead to sealant weep. This does not seem right to me, isn’t the quality of suppleness related to the casing itself?

Nicely high priced like the tires. More than double the cost of the sealants I use with no issue!

[Pinned]

Originally Posted by HamFisted

Rene Herse recently released a new sealant and I noticed Mr. Heine in the comments of another website answering questions when a comment about the need for a supple-specific sealant jumped out at me. He states that the bead of supple tires may not sit as tightly against the rim wall which may lead to sealant weep. This does not seem right to me, isn’t the quality of suppleness related to the casing itself?

Absolute BS. Vittoria manages to make multiple supple casing tires (cotton casing, even) with tight beads that seat appropriately. The bead is separate of the casing, the casing material itself does not change the bead's ability to seat - the reason the Rene Herse tires blow off hookless wheels so readily is not because they are supple.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by Pinned

Absolute BS. Vittoria manages to make multiple supple casing tires (cotton casing, even) with tight beads that seat appropriately. The bead is separate of the casing, the casing material itself does not change the bead's ability to seat - the reason the Rene Herse tires blow off hookless wheels so readily is not because they are supple.

Seating and sealing are two different things, at least according to common usage of these terms. There is no claim that this sealant will affect the proper seating of tires that otherwise wont. I'd consider such tires to be defective.

And while others might make supple casings [whose beads] seal completely its still possible that the RH need special care, for whatever reason. Not saying its true, just that it is at least plausible.

Edit: referring to the bead here

[Pinned]

Originally Posted by marciero

Seating and sealing are two different things, at least according to common usage of these terms. There is no claim that this sealant will affect the proper seating of tires that otherwise wont. I'd consider such tires to be defective.

And while others might make supple casings that seal completely its still possible that the RH need special care, for whatever reason. Not saying its true, just that it is at least plausible.

Jan's comment, which is what I am commenting on, is quoted below in italics:

Supple tires are more flexible, so the bead doesn't always sit as tightly against the rim wall as with stiffer tires. The ground walnut shells help close those gaps. They are also interlock, making Supple Sealant more effective at sealing cuts in the tire—on all tires, not just supple ones.

The casing doesn't change the bead's ability to seat and seal. The bead is far and away the stiffest part of the tire in any case and performance road casings on the whole are very soft. Sealant to coat a porous casing is a different story and a bit more reasonable.

[marciero]

Agree that casing likely does not impact bead's ability to seal. I was suggesting that the bead on RH tires with supple casing might somehow be different than the bead on other makers' supple tires, and also different than their own tires with standard and endurance casings, in a way that makes them not seal as well. I edited my post to make that clear. But yes it would make sense to mention the sealing of the casing if the weepage is an issue on these tire.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by Pinned

Jan's comment, which is what I am commenting on, is quoted below in italics:

Supple tires are more flexible, so the bead doesn't always sit as tightly against the rim wall as with stiffer tires.

In other words, they don’t seat properly. So Jan admits his tires aren’t “tubeless-compatible” as he advertises. More bull****.

[EB]

Is this a cross-post from the “Is sealant worth it?” thread?

Rene Herse and Bicycle Quarterly are a relentless pursuit of the justification of preferred aesthetics - look, fit, feel, finish, perceived ride quality - via ostensibly objective performance characteristics. For whatever reason, for Jan and RH it is not enough to assert that a certain tire constructed a certain way has a ride feel and look that they prefer - it has to be objectively better based on some kind of metric that they construct, usually proving that the French had it all figured out in the early 50s. It’s not that we just like steel frames because of the look and feel, it’s that they “plane” or what have you.

I can’t hate - it’s altogether much more entertaining than the usual retrogrouch stance, and it’s less judgemental than, say, Grant Peterson’s angle on the topic. But if you buy RH tires you are buying into this mentality, and eventually for me - at around RH tire destruction number 5 - the spell wore off.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by EB

...
For whatever reason, for Jan and RH it is not enough to assert that a certain tire constructed a certain way has a ride feel and look that they prefer - it has to be objectively better based on some kind of metric that they construct ...

Are you talking about "elapsed time" on a roll down test?

[Erikg]

Anyone know if there is substantial difference between the RH tires compared to Panaracer Gravelking slicks? Specifically the RH Extralight and the new 2024 graveling R's when it comes to bead engagement and reliability? I know the gravelkings get lots of good reviews and RH a bit of a mixed bag.
Curious if people have tried both?

[dddd]

I'm guessing that since the casing wraps around the bead and becomes part of it's structure, that the casing thickness/stiffness somewhat affects the stiffness of the beaded edge of the tire.

I can't comment on their tire's having any lack of retention, since I haven't been able to make them break loose from my older Mavic Allroad (UST) wheel rims even at quite-varied CX pressures, though I am pretty light myself (my Pedersen CX bike is quite heavy though, and with pronounced rearward weight bias).

I have found that adding regular Orange seal to the Mavic white sealant that I had been using stopped all of the sidewall weeps on my standard-casing 42mm Hurricane Ridge knobbies.

[Howzit]

I've had extralight casing with no issues at all. Went endurance casing for an adventure trip with all the issues... wouldn't hold air, leaked through seams and little antenna nipples, a million plugs in just a week. Haha.

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by Erikg

Anyone know if there is substantial difference between the RH tires compared to Panaracer Gravelking slicks? Specifically the RH Extralight and the new 2024 graveling R's

Bicycle Rolling Resistance tested the new GK Slick R,
better bead fit, better flat resistance, slower roll.
Same mediocre wet performance, but they're better than the Challenge
tires.

The new Rene Herse Orondo Grade, gets similar results to the Slick R.

[robertbb]

It's almost as though low rolling resistance sacrifices wet grip.

Hmmmm