OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[CAAD]

Originally Posted by kppolich

Annual registration fee for an EV in Iowa is $130 + tax/title/tags+ some charging tax.

To compare:
-A driver of a new Ford Escape would pay an annual registration fee of $294.60 and average annual gas tax of $137.75 for yearly taxes and fees of $432.35.

-A driver of a new Tesla Model 3 would pay an annual registration fee of $634.40 plus an estimated $13.00 of charging taxes. This is 50 percent more taxes even though the vehicles have very similar weights and road impacts.


I'm not that upset considering I won't have to pay for gas, gas tax, oil changes, brakes, emissions, etc and pay significantly less overall with home charging as well as yearly insurance costs compared to my 2013 Subaru Impreza.

I'm not sold on the maintenance thing. My old 2021 escape I bought new in 2020 was at around 48k miles when I traded it in. I changed the oil 4 times and rotated the tires every 6k, that's it. Original brakes, original tires both with plenty of service life left. One of the guys I ride with can't even get 20k out of a set of tires on his AWD model 3.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Can you adjust the level of regen braking on your vehicle?

My i3 adjusts the level of regen based on which of the 3 ECO driving modes you choose -- max ECO == max regen, still have to use the brakes a bit.

My Ioniq 5 has 4 levels of regen (paddle on the left increases regen, paddle on the right decreases … is that Campy or SRAM?). The default is level 3 but I always bump it up one to max ("I-pedal"). As long as I'm attentive I rarely have to touch the brake pedal and I find the ride quite smooth -- though, like Mr. Kirk, it took a bit of adjustment on my part.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

(...) I have been living with a Jeep GC 4xe this week, and the regen braking was driving me nuts.(...)

That Jeep might drive you nuts not because it's a New Energy Vehicle, but because it sucks.

Suppose you wanted to see what all the fuss about smartphones was about. You would get a very different impression if, rather than trying the latest Apple or Samsung, you tried out the latest Nokia or Motorola.

Similarly, don't make the mistake of thinking you're experiencing what an EV is like by trying an NEV from a legacy auto maker. Stellantis (who makes Jeep) has responded to the EV transition especially badly. First half of the year net profits are down 48%(!) and the company is searching for a new CEO.
https://apnews.com/article/stellanti...105d2bc473f57c

The legacy manufacturers are to cars what Nokia, Motorola, and Blackberry are to phones...or what Kodak is to cameras. Don't short-change yourself. Try an EV from a "pure play" EV manufacturer, like Tesla, Rivian, or Lucid.

[saab2000]

I tend to agree with those who don’t love regen, but it can’t really be ignored either because the recaptured energy is significant, like 10+% of total energy unless I’m mistaken. It can’t just be lost energy but there’s no doubt that it can be a challenge to be a smooth driver with the 1-pedal driving. The other thing I’ve noticed is that it’s not super easy to maintain a super steady speed on a freeway road trip with just my foot. So why not use cruise control, aka - Autopilot in a Tesla? Well, it’s because of the random and too frequent phantom braking. This is another flaw of Teslas and other owners will probably corroborate this.

Again, as I say as an owner, the bad comes with the good but I wish they’d work on some of these annoyances a bit harder. As to the post above about maintenance, I’m still a believer. Almost two years in and zero maintenance beyond tire rotations which happen when I swap out summer and winter wheels. Tire wear is likely slightly higher than when I had a gas car, but not massively so. The guy who says he can’t make 20K miles on his Model 3 probably has a very heavy right foot.

[jwalther]

Any Mach-e owners here? I'm planning to pick up a new GT in the next week or two.

[Pastashop]

Also consider Volvo / Polestar pure electrics… actually a Geely product (?) and like driving a top spec iPhone. In a good sense.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/f...y-ceo-50ded461

Originally Posted by dgauthier

That Jeep might drive you nuts not because it's a New Energy Vehicle, but because it sucks.

Suppose you wanted to see what all the fuss about smartphones was about. You would get a very different impression if, rather than trying the latest Apple or Samsung, you tried out the latest Nokia or Motorola.

Similarly, don't make the mistake of thinking you're experiencing what an EV is like by trying an NEV from a legacy auto maker. Stellantis (who makes Jeep) has responded to the EV transition especially badly. First half of the year net profits are down 48%(!) and the company is searching for a new CEO.
https://apnews.com/article/stellanti...105d2bc473f57c

The legacy manufacturers are to cars what Nokia, Motorola, and Blackberry are to phones...or what Kodak is to cameras. Don't short-change yourself. Try an EV from a "pure play" EV manufacturer, like Tesla, Rivian, or Lucid.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

That Jeep might drive you nuts not because it's a New Energy Vehicle, but because it sucks.

Suppose you wanted to see what all the fuss about smartphones was about. You would get a very different impression if, rather than trying the latest Apple or Samsung, you tried out the latest Nokia or Motorola.

Easy, big guy. I like my Motorola!

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by paredown

Easy, big guy. I like my Motorola!

I still miss my Razr V3! I loved that damn thing...

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

That Jeep might drive you nuts not because it's a New Energy Vehicle, but because it sucks.

Suppose you wanted to see what all the fuss about smartphones was about. You would get a very different impression if, rather than trying the latest Apple or Samsung, you tried out the latest Nokia or Motorola.

Similarly, don't make the mistake of thinking you're experiencing what an EV is like by trying an NEV from a legacy auto maker. Stellantis (who makes Jeep) has responded to the EV transition especially badly. First half of the year net profits are down 48%(!) and the company is searching for a new CEO.
https://apnews.com/article/stellanti...105d2bc473f57c

The legacy manufacturers are to cars what Nokia, Motorola, and Blackberry are to phones...or what Kodak is to cameras. Don't short-change yourself. Try an EV from a "pure play" EV manufacturer, like Tesla, Rivian, or Lucid.

I have driven in a bunch of Teslas now, and most recently a Rivian SUV. They all seem to display some degree of annoyance with the regen braking. As above, I suppose it's something you get used to, or even appreciate for the efficiency.

As a backseat passenger, it is not pleasant, IMO.

Onto the Jeep 4xe, I actually think it's an awesome vehicle. I dont know if I'd want to own one, as I keep my cars for decades, and this one is too tech heavy for me, but as a rental: Superb vehicle once I turned off max regen. Gobs of power, very comfortable interior, plenty of room for me and passengers.

That said, the whole hybrid system in that car is a joke. I get that everyone is being pushed to new mpg standards, but with admittedly agressive driving, over about 800 miles, the Jeep averaged about 20mpg. That's pretty poor for a brand new hybrid turbo drivetrain.

Pretty sure Jeep customers dont care about fuel economy and have little interest in electric anything though.

Edit: Never heard the term "New Energy Vehicle" - that's funny.

[rrudoff]

I just had a rental Jeep GC 4XE for about 2000 miles this month. I did not mind the max regen braking, although my wife hated it. I was able to get 23-24 MPG regularly, which is not too bad, but I do about the same in my similar size Q7 with no Hybrid. It was nice to use the regen on a long downhill drive and recharge the battery to about 30 percent. It was plenty fast but the 4 cylinder engine was agricultural at best-sounded like a diesel at idle. The worst thing however was the "Spa" noise that would turn on when you were under 20 mph or so under all circumstances, I get it for backing up and perhaps for when you first start off, but what is the point when you are sitting at a light not moving? While it was a useful car, I would certainly not buy one.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I have driven in a bunch of Teslas now, and most recently a Rivian SUV. They all seem to display some degree of annoyance with the regen braking. As above, I suppose it's something you get used to, or even appreciate for the efficiency.

As a backseat passenger, it is not pleasant, IMO.

Onto the Jeep 4xe, I actually think it's an awesome vehicle. I dont know if I'd want to own one, as I keep my cars for decades, and this one is too tech heavy for me, but as a rental: Superb vehicle once I turned off max regen. Gobs of power, very comfortable interior, plenty of room for me and passengers.

That said, the whole hybrid system in that car is a joke. I get that everyone is being pushed to new mpg standards, but with admittedly agressive driving, over about 800 miles, the Jeep averaged about 20mpg. That's pretty poor for a brand new hybrid turbo drivetrain.

Pretty sure Jeep customers dont care about fuel economy and have little interest in electric anything though.

Edit: Never heard the term "New Energy Vehicle" - that's funny.

Very good. Some of these manufacturers are profoundly struggling to get it right, so try everything. Then with your eyes wide open buy what you like.

I think the term "NEV" is more of a thing in China atm. It includes all hybrids, plug-in hybrids, battery electric vehicles, and fuel cell electric vehicles.

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by jwalther

Any Mach-e owners here? I'm planning to pick up a new GT in the next week or two.

I don't own a Mach E, but I rented one recently on a trip to Florida. I loved that vehicle. Plenty of room, drove great and I thought the screen was too big until I used the GPS, then I loved that screen. I already drive a Ford, so everything was easy to figure out.

[merckxman]

There is an article in NYT today about the rising cost of auto insurance. It mentions, "Ron, with a car that is three years younger than Tara’s and has a plug-in hybrid battery that would be expensive to replace, was experiencing sky-high costs of $3,396 per year."

Are you EV buyers experiencing higher insurance costs vs ICE vehicle?

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by merckxman

There is an article in NYT today about the rising cost of auto insurance. It mentions, "Ron, with a car that is three years younger than Tara’s and has a plug-in hybrid battery that would be expensive to replace, was experiencing sky-high costs of $3,396 per year."

Are you EV buyers experiencing higher insurance costs vs ICE vehicle?

The UK insurance companies are ahead of the game on this:

FT: Surging UK premiums for electric vehicle insurance pose risk to widespread adoption
https://www.ft.com/content/0b4e4deb-...3-f7791ad16527

Why is it so expensive to insure an electric car?
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article...r-aVdwN5I8ko90


Couple the high cost of EVs to begin with and the fact that their batteries are difficult to assess if they sustain any damage, meaning that simple fender benders can result in the battery or the entire car being written off by the insurance company, and it's easy to see why premiums are going to be high.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

Why is it so expensive to insure an electric car?
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article...r-aVdwN5I8ko90


.

I'd say this is a flawed analysis. Almost all their reasons are due to selection bias.

Teslas remain the largest market share, they are also the worst in terms of repairability, part lead times, technician availability, etc. because of their operating model.