OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[robt57]

Originally Posted by MikeD

A friend leased an Audi EV. He said his power bill went up $500 over a year (his solar system couldn't cover the added power whereas it did before the EV) and he drove 5000 miles. I did a calc and my 50 mpg Prius driven 5000 miles at $5 per gal gas pencils out about the same cost.. So much for EVs being cheaper to operate. Factor in higher cost of the vehicle, higher insurance, dismal resale value too, not to mention all the other negatives...

Premium EVs are lowest efficiency. My friend's 2 motor Tesla S is 1/2 what out Bolt is Mile/kW. It is also WAY faster.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by MikeD

A friend leased an Audi EV. He said his power bill went up $500 over a year (his solar system couldn't cover the added power whereas it did before the EV) and he drove 5000 miles. I did a calc and my 50 mpg Prius driven 5000 miles at $5 per gal gas pencils out about the same cost.. So much for EVs being cheaper to operate. Factor in higher cost of the vehicle, higher insurance, dismal resale value too, not to mention all the other negatives...

So far in over 30k miles I’ve spent $0.00 on maintenance. So I’ve got that going for me.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by MikeD

A friend leased an Audi EV. He said his power bill went up $500 over a year (his solar system couldn't cover the added power whereas it did before the EV) and he drove 5000 miles. I did a calc and my 50 mpg Prius driven 5000 miles at $5 per gal gas pencils out about the same cost.. So much for EVs being cheaper to operate. Factor in higher cost of the vehicle, higher insurance, dismal resale value too, not to mention all the other negatives...

Your friend blundered by leasing an *Audi* EV.

When buying an EV, it's important to understand not all EV's are the same. The legacy automakers are about 7 years behind the pure EV makers like Tesla and the Chinese. Volkswagen Automotive Group is having an especially hard time manufacturing competitive EV's:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/14/busin...ace/index.html
https://electrek.co/2024/07/10/volks...plant-closure/

The Polestar tuxbailey fell in love with was manufactured in China by Geely. That's why it's so good. Cars like that keep legacy manufacturers -- and even Tesla -- awake at night.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by saab2000

My insurance today seems to be way more expensive than it was a few years ago.

I'm not an expert, but from what I've gathered from personal conversations with a few in the industry as well as what I've read from reasonably reliable online sources, many insurance companies are trying to compensate for property loss payouts by raising auto rates, at least here in the US.

I understand that they're paying out more for natural disasters, and so have to raise rates, but why should someone who lives in an area where hurricanes, tornados, and earthquakes are rare pay extra for auto insurance to make up for those who live in more disaster prone areas?

[muttley]

I'm curious as no one as mentioned the 'Tesla ins premium tax'? Tesla's are said to be more expensive to repair compared to other vehicles and as such are subject to higher insurance premiums. Maybe there is someone in the auto insurance biz that can chime in on this for facts as I've just heard rumors' that Tesla drivers on average are paying up to 30% more in insurance premiums compared to other vehicles, can that be true?

What is my experience with EV's? I've leased both a Nissan Leaf (2014) and a Chevy Bolt (2017) as commuter vehicles. Both functioned without any issues for the 36mos that I leased them for without any issues whatsoever. The only complaint for me was with the extremely low range on the Leaf, but for what I paid to lease it (peanuts), it was well worth it.

[CNY rider]

Originally Posted by tuxbailey

I put $0 down and after tax/fee is $550/month for 27 months. Big chunk of that is MD tax as I have to pay tax on the MSRP of the car. This is the Costco/Polestar deal where Costco gives you $2,000 and polestar has the 27 month lease at $299/month for the basic dual motor model with 10,000 miles/year.

Thanks.
This with Angry’s analysis is really helpful.

[tuxbailey]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Nice that you provided the cost analysis.

So at your lease terms the lease itselft is costing $6,600/year

@$3.38/100 miles, if you drive the full lease limit of 10k miles/year, that's only $338 in "fuel" cost if you are able to charge up at home every night bringing the full cost of ownership to just under $7k for a year.

My truck averages about 18mpg with the driving I do. If gas were to stay where it is now, at about $3.30/gallon, and I also drive 10k miles for a year, I will spend $1833/year in fuel alone.

The plus for leasing is you are not tied to the vehicle or the technology. Give it back after 2 years and get the newest tech. Never be on the hook for a big repair or maintenance cost. The negative is that it's a recurring cost that never goes away.

That's interesting about paying MD tax on a lease. I have never looked into what taxes you pay on a lease, seems they always get their pound of flesh though.

Yeah, if I am a resident in DC then tax will be much cheaper. In DC the tax is 10% of monthly lease, tax, fees, per month.

I think if I own the car for 100k miles then it will be much cheaper than an ICE car to operate.

I am leasing this car because it happened to be a good deal. And my daughter starts to drive this year, so free up a car for her (old CR-V.) I figure when she goes to college in 2 years, the lease will end, we don't need the CR-V anymore and we will figure what the next car will be. Right now I am inclined to buy a 2-3 years old Polestar. They go on sale for under $30K with about 20k-25k miles. I can't lease anymore because I drive 15,000 miles a year and i actually want to drive more with this car.

[rwsaunders]

People often link EV’s to sustainability, but when I see a Rivian, Cybertruck, Hummer, etc., it makes me wonder what the environmental penalty is when wasting a battery on powering a 6-9,000# vehicle. How about building a Tesla Model S or a Porsche Mission E that can go 75 miles over the speed limit? Essentially in some cases, it seems like in the US, we aren’t focused on rightsizing vehicles, improving fuel economy and being more environmentally responsible, we’re just using batteries instead of gas to make people feel good.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by rwsaunders

People often link EV’s to sustainability, but when I see a Rivian, Cybertruck, Hummer, etc., it makes me wonder what the environmental penalty is when wasting a battery on powering a 6-9,000# vehicle. How about building a Tesla Model S or a Porsche Mission E that can go 75 miles over the speed limit? Essentially in some cases, it seems like in the US, we aren’t focused on rightsizing vehicles, improving fuel economy and being more environmentally responsible, we’re just using batteries instead of gas to make people feel good.

Recalling the moments I spent at a red light yesterday, on my black bicycle behind a black-wrapped cyber truck, I agree. It’s too often just a different way to power another unnecessary ego trip.

[cgolvin]

Seems that the manufacturers just look at what sells here in the ICE world and make EVs to meet that demand. I'd love to see right-sized vehicles but I think the US consumer demand says bigger is better.

With gigantic F-150s and their equivalents, Escalades, and Suburbans etc. on the road it's hard to find fault with a Rivian (e.g.) because of its size.

[fried bake]

I think the industry is approaching an interesting phase with rollouts of more affordable vehicles like the Equinox, Kia EV3 and Volvo XC30. This will be an important period for the industry as the lease prices on these vehicles will likely be less than equivalent ICE competitors and range will be competitive (+300 miles each).

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by fried bake

I think the industry is approaching an interesting phase with rollouts of more affordable vehicles like the Equinox, Kia EV3 and Volvo XC30. This will be an important period for the industry as the lease prices on these vehicles will likely be less than equivalent ICE competitors and range will be competitive (+300 miles each).

so not sure on the Equinox, but the EV3 and XC30 sound like pretty small cars.. that works for some family units, but it won't for many.. you can debate whether a family of 4 needs a Tahoe-sized vehicle or not, but the reality is that's what many families will be looking to buy.. I'll be impressed when they can make an EV6 or XC60 EV affordable..

also, still not convinced this is "affordable" for many folks, esp for a smaller car.. "The 2025 Kia EV3 is expected to have a base MSRP of around $35,000, with top-trim models costing up to $50,000" I know cars have risen in price, but, for reference, the Hyundai Kona starts just under $25k.. the Elantra starts at under $22k.. I picked those two ICE cars as I think they are of comparable sizes..

I still say (as others have) that EVs will not be ubiquitous until they are much more in line with their comparable ICE cousins AND there is more infrastructure in outside the major cities or major highways.. the infrastructure is way better than it was a few years ago, but still not there.. and then you have the issues of someone who doesn't live in a single family home or otherwise doesn't have a place to charge at home..

[tuxbailey]

Originally Posted by fourflys

so not sure on the Equinox, but the EV3 and XC30 sound like pretty small cars.. that works for some family units, but it won't for many.. you can debate whether a family of 4 needs a Tahoe-sized vehicle or not, but the reality is that's what many families will be looking to buy.. I'll be impressed when they can make an EV6 or XC60 EV affordable..

also, still not convinced this is "affordable" for many folks, esp for a smaller car.. "The 2025 Kia EV3 is expected to have a base MSRP of around $35,000, with top-trim models costing up to $50,000" I know cars have risen in price, but, for reference, the Hyundai Kona starts just under $25k.. the Elantra starts at under $22k.. I picked those two ICE cars as I think they are of comparable sizes..

I still say (as others have) that EVs will not be ubiquitous until they are much more in line with their comparable ICE cousins AND there is more infrastructure in outside the major cities or major highways.. the infrastructure is way better than it was a few years ago, but still not there.. and then you have the issues of someone who doesn't live in a single family home or otherwise doesn't have a place to charge at home..

For me, EV is still for users who have multiple cars and best suited for commute. It is even tricky for urban setting unless you home/apartment complex offers in home charging.

Although for me I can see the use case of owning just EVs, and rent a van/SUV when I need it for vacation, long trips, etc.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by tuxbailey

For me, EV is still for users who have multiple cars and best suited for commute. It is even tricky for urban setting unless you home/apartment complex offers in home charging.

Although for me I can see the use case of owning just EVs, and rent a van/SUV when I need it for vacation, long trips, etc.

Regarding the 'bolded' txt in reply to your post, and general update on what I will call mid range [PDX to Victoria, BC trip]. Which was a one stop 15-18 minute charge mid way/each way.

Our Bolt for 3 years has been commuter and until last weeks CAN trip I'd have agreed.

Our biggest issue was the Hotel we stayed had more EV guests than chargers, and selfish guests leaving their car after charged. So twice I had to go to a charger off site. That charger was close by and DC fast [VS hotel level 2] So not big deal overall.

BUT, topping off night before departure, the hotel charger was clogged up. So the 85% to full @ DC fast was only a 12kw charge that took 51 minutes to get to 100% [VS the 80% max we employ for commuter mode @ home]

All in all I think we'd travel with the car again definitely. Especially where city parking will be on a trip. We were going to take the mini-van, Victoria street parking would have been more of a hassle probably.

Back to charging, on way home we ran it to lower range % to mid point/stop and got full charge rate for our 15 minutes. The ride up we charged middle range % and the rate from 49 to 41kw for the charge. Return charge was 52 kw for the entire time. Live/learn. Plus we put in more than we needed going north it turned out. But I like to not run the battery to low. Might have been able to not charge for trip, but arriving @ single digit range left in car, not me... This faster charge rate certainly come more into play with greater range overlap, longer trip etc.

Take away for us is we will use EV on next planned Vancouver, BC trip. We cut this trip to 1 week from the orig 2 weeks and only Victoria instead of both cities.

[AngryScientist]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/subsidize...090000016.html

Interesting article. I didnt realize that:

a) some states charge an annual fee to ev users
b) some states are collecting less $$ in fuel tax than a decade+ ago