OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I find this VERY hard to believe.

If there was real world technology to have a battery bank capable of 600+ mile range that could be charged in 9 minutes every EV car manufacturer would be clawing their way into getting it, and every EV on the road right now would be obsolete.

I just did a quick search and there were quite a few links on this topic, though I can't speak to the quality of the sources. Note that the poster to whom you responded said "samples" so it may very well be that every CV OEM is, in fact, clawing their way into getting it. Here's a randomly chosen one:

https://www.rideapart.com/news/72831...y-coming-soon/

[VTCaraco]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

the idea of enjoying driving is now foreign to me -- it's purely a functional exercise.

I tried to embrace a vehicle as an appliance and surrender that goal.
I debated with my family that I didn't want to try to buy some sort of status or pay a premium that I really didn't need...but we're very careful with money, our son is through college (debt free) and earning more than we are and I ultimately didn't NEED to reach that point.
And through my various test-drives, I realized that I really do appreciate the sort of athletic drive of a BMW.
I wish I didn't...
This also ties back to my point about the cost-analysis on a CPO.
With a BMW (or similar vehicle) the 60k mile benchmark is going to come at a cost and then the 90-100k mile benchmark brings another wave of costs (some known, others less known). So what you gain in the flatter part of depreciation, you give up in maintenance/repair budget.
We still have two 10-year old BMW diesels in the family and a 20 year old convertible...but I opted to let go of the other 10-year old diesel after analyzing what my actual per-month cost was (minus fuel) and looking at the landscape of options.

Back to the real point of the thread, I'm eager to learn more about living with an EV and hope that the environmental impact and total cost of ownership make it feel like a GREAT decision over time.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by VTCaraco

the environmental impact

The link below tells me that this is far from being a settled issue:

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-...es-be-recycled

(And that's just what happens when their life is over. Getting the materials in the first place is also a pretty nasty business.)

[VTCaraco]

Originally Posted by Louis

The link below tells me that this is far from being a settled issue:

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-...es-be-recycled

(And that's just what happens when their life is over. Getting the materials in the first place is also a pretty nasty business.)

This has been my argument AGAINST it until now...

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by Louis

The link below tells me that this is far from being a settled issue:

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-...es-be-recycled

(And that's just what happens when their life is over. Getting the materials in the first place is also a pretty nasty business.)

Due to the complexity of the analysis and the interested parties, unlikely to ever be settled. I found the linked piece from Dave Kirk's wife way up in the thread a very worthwhile read.

Getting the materials to power an ICE vehicle is also a pretty nasty business, one that persists over the life of the vehicle versus once.

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I find this VERY hard to believe.

If there was real world technology to have a battery bank capable of 600+ mile range that could be charged in 9 minutes every EV car manufacturer would be clawing their way into getting it, and every EV on the road right now would be obsolete.

It's too expensive to put in regular EVs. That's why I said it was going to go into very high end EVs. Think Mercedes, Lincoln, Lyriq, BMW and Rolls Royce.
BTW, the battery is also lighter and expected to have a 20 year life.

https://interestingengineering.com/e...arge-in-9-mins

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by Louis

The link below tells me that this is far from being a settled issue:

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-...es-be-recycled

(And that's just what happens when their life is over. Getting the materials in the first place is also a pretty nasty business.)

Wait until you find out how messy drilling for oil gets. There are hundreds of spills in the Gulf of Mexico every year. There was a major spill last week that didn't even make the news.

Honestly, I don't even look at it from the climate perspective. I look at is as a sustainability issue. Can what we are doing be sustained for even ten more generations? Oil will be hugely expensive and getting ever more scarce.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

Wait until you find out how messy drilling for oil gets. There are hundreds of spills in the Gulf of Mexico every year. There was a major spill last week that didn't even make the news.

Saying "Well, we might be bad, but at least we aren't as bad as those nasty ICEs" doesn't strike me as the best justification for EVs.

[unterhausen]

The nastiness for EV's is once though. Ask the people in the fracking areas around here how they feel about it.

[Llewellyn]

You can add my wife and I to the "won't go back to ICE" crowd. We've had our Volvo's for over a year and love them. Apart from a warning message on mine that didn't cause any problems and that the service department couldn't replicate (and hasn't reappeared since) ours have been trouble-free. They are a ton of fun to drive.

I lust after a Porsche Taycan but I can't really make a sensible case for getting one.

Most of the anti-EV rhetoric isn't supported by evidence.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

The nastiness for EV's is once though

Not necessarily - the energy to power the batteries has to come from somewhere, and around here that's mostly coal-fired power plants.

But I would assume (and am happy that this is the case, because it means that transportation is getting cleaner) that overall gas (or diesel) motors in cars and trucks do more harm / mile driven than the equivalent amount in an EV, even if the electricity comes from a traditional coal plant.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Llewellyn

Most of the anti-EV rhetoric isn't supported by evidence.

This is correct.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

It's too expensive to put in regular EVs. That's why I said it was going to go into very high end EVs. Think Mercedes, Lincoln, Lyriq, BMW and Rolls Royce.
BTW, the battery is also lighter and expected to have a 20 year life.

https://interestingengineering.com/e...arge-in-9-mins

That link appears to be behind a paywall. I hope you’re correct about these solid state batteries but I think we’re still a ways off on them. But it’s clear that that’s where a lot of focus has been placed recently and if/when they become a reality it will be the game changer most people feel is needed.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by saab2000

That link appears to be behind a paywall. I hope you’re correct about these solid state batteries but I think we’re still a ways off on them. But it’s clear that that’s where a lot of focus has been placed recently and if/when they become a reality it will be the game changer most people feel is needed.

I was able to view the article?

Here is the meat of it:

Notably, these batteries could power electric vehicles with a 600-mile range, charge in 9 minutes, and have a lifespan of 20 years.

“All-solid-state batteries can enhance safety by replacing liquid components with solid ones. When used in the same pack size as existing products, they reduce weight and take up less space,” highlighted the company.

However, due to their high production costs, these batteries’ initial application will be limited to the “super premium” EV segment.

This would indeed be a game changer if true. If you could pick up 400+ miles of range in 8-9 minutes, that's basically equivalent to filling up an ICE vehicle at a gas station.

What I would like to better understand is why these batteries are reported to be so much more expensive to produce than the current generation of batteries? Is it a raw materials issue, or a complexity of production, or...?

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by Llewellyn

(...) Most of the anti-EV rhetoric isn't supported by evidence.

+1. It's supported by the fossil fuel industry.

Originally Posted by Louis

Saying "Well, we might be bad, but at least we aren't as bad as those nasty ICEs" doesn't strike me as the best justification for EVs.

Until we're prepared to *stop driving cars*, picking the lesser evil is the best we can hope for.

Otherwise take public transit, walk, or -- heck, I dunno -- ride a bike or something.