OT - Patriots, again- say it aint so Bill

[soulspinner]

GO Broncos!

[rugbysecondrow]

Originally Posted by Louis

Unless you're a Pats fan, I don't see how one could possible root for either side on this - neither is sympathetic and both have a history of unsavory actions.

Not true at all. Getting a parking ticket does not warrant a month in jail as punishment, that is what the NFL did here. They completely ignored their own rules and stated punishments but their 100% overzealous persecution of the Patriots and Brady. It is ludicrous to think the NFL could have been so stupid in this regard, but they were (are).

Brady is only unsympathetic because he is one of the best QB ever, has a fist full of rings, is rich, hot wife, and is handsome.

If it was Ryan Fitzpatrick or Geno Smith, this would have gone no where.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Louis

Unless you're a Pats fan, I don't see how one could possible root for either side on this - neither is sympathetic and both have a history of unsavory actions.

If the choice is a guy who probably but couldn't be definitively proved to have done something that likely most NFL QBs do anyways, or the idiot tyrant trying to dispense some capricious brand of vigilante justice on what amounts to a non-issue in the grand scheme of that game, its not much of a choice at all. This was tough guy posturing from the NFL when their last four cases -- which they also botched -- came up snake-eyes.

The NFL's disciplinary process does not work. Its been rebuked 5 times now in federal court. To think the union will give Goddell any kind of ground on this in the next CBA negotiation is laughable.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by daker13

I'm not at all surprised that the NFL is appealing this. But I suspect that they might withdraw their appeal at some point, especially if the timeline is a long one. I know that Goodell wants to protect his fiefdom, but this whole circus has already dragged on long enough. If he thinks a long appeal is actually a good thing for the League, he really has a screw loose.

I haven't read about there being anything procedurally wrong with Berman's proceedings--maybe he was a little mean to the NFL lawyers?

I think I can predict how this will end:

The sports media is reporting that the Pats can make a case that they should be permitted to recoup the draft picks they lost as a result of Deflategate. http://nesn.com/2015/09/legal-expert...picks-1m-fine/

The Pats supposedly just indicated that it is "highly unlikely" they will attempt to recoup the lost draft picks. http://nesn.com/2015/09/report-highl...p-draft-picks/

This is the quid pro quo: there will be a setllement whereby the Pats accept the lost draft picks as a penalty in exchange for the NFL waiving its appeal. This will end the litigation and allow both sides to save face (to the extent the NFL has anything left to save). I'd bet these discussions have already happened, which explains the statements attributed to the Pats. It probably is unlikely that the Pats will try to recoup draft picks because there already is an agreement in principle and the two sides are negotiating terms.

While this will be over soon, I intend to keep contributing to this thread when Brady tries to put up triple-digits against the Colts in week 6 and then goes onto the playoffs and Superbowl.

[gary135r]

When I heard the news this morning, it was like the Butler interception all over again.

[gary135r]

IMO, Goodell is in this so deep against Brady that they would have to remove him from his job (unlikely) to have this end. Most clear thinking legal experts say that not only was this a strong rebuke of Goodell's decision, but it was a beat down of epic proportions. Goodell is delusional. It is really hard to see an appeal court overturning one their boys' searing judgement. The NFL is the one who brought this to court, not Brady. They were so arrogant to race to federal court to have them validate their ridiculous judgement (4 game suspension) thinking they beat the NFLPA to the punch. Because of that they opened themselves to the whole appeal being scrutinized, and not just having article 46 validated.
A good analogy for Goodell v Brady is like a husband and wife argument that gets so out of control, no one can remember how it started.

[daker13]

Originally Posted by rugbysecondrow

Len J is either a Colts fan or a Pats hater...it has been visible throughout this conversation.

It is clear to any reasonable, thinking person that the NFL screwed the pooch (technical legal jargon).

Oh... I guess the joke's on me, because I read that linked article thinking it had to do with what he said it did, and it didn't.

To be honest, I haven't been following the thread. I was getting enough of the HA HA CHEATERS!!! thing elsewhere.

[daker13]

Originally Posted by bikerboy337

I know I'm biased as a Pats fan, but I've been so amazed that this has turned into such a major issue compromising the fairness of the game... especially when they dont really give a rats ass about steroids/HGH which to me has a real impact on the game... (i know, i know, but they test, we all know how effective testing is, right?)

I had absolutely no interest in football until my early 30s, and I've somehow gotten to the point a dozen years later where I really, really enjoy watching the sport. It is so freaking entertaining to me, and I love the Pats.

But to me the elephant in the room is the concussion thing. Nearly everyone, including myself, ignores it. Sometimes I read about these young guys with brain damage and I think, How in the world can I justify supporting a sport where this happens? I know CTE doesn't happen to everyone, but more and more evidence is accruing that it's happening to more people than we thought. It seems well outside of the general physical wear-and-tear that many pro athletes have to deal with.

As a business, the NFL needs to keep people like me from thinking about CTE. I don't think they're going to keep it up forever.

[shovelhd]

Would the appellate court hold a hearing before trying the appeal? If so, could the appellate judge throw it out at that time?

[Louis]

Originally Posted by bikerboy337

Anyways, here's to watching this thread for the next year or two...

Will the court cases end before or after TB is inducted into the football HoF?

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by Louis

Will the court cases end before or after TB is inducted into the football HoF?

Doesn't matter.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by shovelhd

Would the appellate court hold a hearing before trying the appeal? If so, could the appellate judge throw it out at that time?

Appellate courts don't try cases. The appeal is decided on the record created by the trial court. Each side submits briefs, and jointly submit the record. Oral argument then is held, and the Court of Appeals ultimately issues a written decision.

[gary135r]

Originally Posted by Louis

Will the court cases end before or after TB is inducted into the football HoF?

It will only end when the U.S. Supreme Court tells Goodell "Get the F out of this courtroom!". He won't let it go. Goodell, (Ahab), Brady, (White Whale).

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by gary135r

It will only end when the U.S. Supreme Court tells Goodell "Get the F out this courtroom!". He won't let it go. Goodell, (Ahab), Brady, (White Whale).

pretty sure that SCOTUS would deny cert. Can the federal appeals courts refuse to hear an appeal?

Just looking at Brady as an employee, I don't like that he can be punished arbitrarily because Goodell made himself look like an idiot in previous cases. That ain't right. It's like the Rice case, where the court ruled against the NFL for similar reasons. But even if Brady was directly involved in circumventing the rules, he could see how other people had been punished for very similar offenses, and would expect similar punishment.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

pretty sure that SCOTUS would deny cert. Can the federal appeals courts refuse to hear an appeal?

Just looking at Brady as an employee, I don't like that he can be punished arbitrarily because Goodell made himself look like an idiot in previous cases. That ain't right. It's like the Rice case, where the court ruled against the NFL for similar reasons. But even if Brady was directly involved in circumventing the rules, he could see how other people had been punished for very similar offenses, and would expect similar punishment.

The parties may appeal as of right from a final judgment in a civil matter. The Court of Appeals cannot refuse to hear an appeal taken as a matter of right. It could decide the matter relatively quickly with a short summary order, but it will hear the appeal.

I cannot imagine SCOTUS granting a cert petition. Only around 1% of all cert petitions are granted and the petitions that are granted virually always involve important questions of federal or Constitutional law on which there has been disagreement amongst the various Courts of Appeal to have previously addressed the issue (circuit splits).

What the NFL could possible do is revisit the penalty phase of the arbitration and issue a new penalty consistent with Judge Berman's Order. But since the Judge already held that Brady cannot be disciplined for being generally aware of others' misconduct, and the NFL did not, and cannot, establish that Brady was involved with or knew of any illicit ball tampering, this seems like a non-starter too.

In legal terms, the NFL is ����ed!