What’s on your coffee bench?

[froze]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

I'm wondering...is the difference the shape of the filter holder, the time it takes for water to drain through (based on the size of the openings) or the ability to hold the water longer?

I have been using a Bonavita BV4000ID Porcelain Immersion Coffee Dripper for the past ten years. It is similar to the Switch in that you can control the flow, although lately I just leave it fully open. It makes much better coffee than a smaller filter holder I use when traveling.

Looks like it's no longer in production. I better take good care of it!

I don't have an answer for you about what the difference is between the two, maybe somewhere on the internet you can find that. I do know that most people like the Switch better than the Clever, both in taste and the quality of construction in reviews that I read comparing the two. I don't really like plastic products if there is another similar device made of something other than all plastic; so I appreciate the over-engineering of the Hario.

I heard about your Bonavita, but I also couldn't find it for sale except there was one on EBay last week NIB, and there is very little on the internet about others reviewing it other than factory reps which means nothing. On Amazon, it got 3 stars whereas both the Hario and the Clever got 4 1/2, but again some people complain about stuff on Amazon for all sorts of nutty reasons that just don't make sense, so sometimes Amazon reviews are not reliable, just depends on what the review itself says. Almost all the one-star reports on the Bonavita are about them breaking the lever too easily, yet you had yours for 10 years, makes me wonder what the heck are those other people doing to break theirs, some broke as many as 3 levers in 6 months?!

Even the Hario lever is plastic, so when you know something could be fragile you don't put force against it, but I can't see that lever ever breaking, the only thing on it that would probably break first is the glass dripper if I accidentally drop it.

[oldguy00]

Has anyone cross shopped ECM and Rocket machines?

Thoughts on the following two heat exchanger / rotary pump machines:
Rocket Mozzafiato R
ECM Technika V Profi

Close in price, some asthetic differences etc

[benb]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

Anyone try the Kruve brand cups? Yes a little pricey, but so are Pinarellos....

I think they look pretty cool, but not sure how'd I'd like using a 'mug' without a handle...


https://idrinkcoffee.com/products/kr...lus-300ml-10oz

I think those look really cool, but I was looking for similar ones a while back and for almost every brand I found at least one review where the internal wall of the glass cup/glass had broken and someone had gotten a scary mouthful of glass.

I ended up getting some vacuum insulated stainless steel ones instead. This was for espresso glasses. They don't look as cool but they work really well.

Or just stick to the time tested ceramics.

[jkbrwn]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

Has anyone cross shopped ECM and Rocket machines?

Thoughts on the following two heat exchanger / rotary pump machines:
Rocket Mozzafiato R
ECM Technika V Profi

Close in price, some asthetic differences etc

When I worked at Rapha HQ, we had a Rocket and boy oh boy did it require a lot of upkeep. I'd personally be buying the ECM - I hear nothing but good things about them. I'd also consider a used Decent in this price range. Or an open box Synchronika from WLL or Clive Coffee... so many options.

[SoCalSteve]

Originally Posted by rockdude

If you like these and have not tried Dak or Manhattan, spend a little more and treat yourself. Especially, if you like light roast and like berries and fruit in the cup. To me, they are at another level.

I will second and third this! Manhattan is on another level compared to pretty much any other micro roaster, seriously. The Luna and Letty are by far the best light roast-fruit bomb there is.

[oldguy00]

Originally Posted by jkbrwn

When I worked at Rapha HQ, we had a Rocket and boy oh boy did it require a lot of upkeep. I'd personally be buying the ECM - I hear nothing but good things about them. I'd also consider a used Decent in this price range. Or an open box Synchronika from WLL or Clive Coffee... so many options.

I've used a Rocket in the past. When it comes to these high end heat exchanger E61 machines, the internals are pretty similar and all unfortunately require similar upkeep. Back flushes, screen cleaning, possible descaling, etc. Part of the price to play....

[jkbrwn]

Originally Posted by SoCalSteve

I will second and third this! Manhattan is on another level compared to pretty much any other micro roaster, seriously. The Luna and Letty are by far the best light roast-fruit bomb there is.

Know what's really funny? Since rockdude posted this, Manhattan have teamed up with Onyx to roast and sell Onyx coffee in Europe.

There's a quick video here. You don't need to have an Instagram to watch.

https://www.instagram.com/onyxcoffee...l/C3bGL1lOjjd/

[jkbrwn]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

I've used a Rocket in the past. When it comes to these high end heat exchanger E61 machines, the internals are pretty similar and all unfortunately require similar upkeep. Back flushes, screen cleaning, possible descaling, etc. Part of the price to play....

Makes sense. I've just heard better things about ECM than Rocket, in general. With that said, to be fair to the machine, it was in use from pretty much 8am till 4pm all day every week day with a bunch of caffeine thirsty cyclists ordering all day long. Our poor barista....

[kytyree]

I looked at ECM and they seem well made to me, Profitec was another brand that I thought was well built. In the end I got a Rocket because that's what I'd wanted for a long time...

But for my daily use here at home the R58 has worked well. It'll be 4 years I've had it pretty soon. I changed the gasket in the head and I clean the machine at the end of every month, I have been careful about not using hard water from where I used to lived etc, but in general it looks and works just like the day it showed up. That's a lot different workload though than being in a cafe, mine is mostly for me and the girlfriend. It does get a good workout if family visits, I come from a long line of coffee drinkers and they keep me making drinks all morning long.

Other than that I haven't had to fool around with it other than enough to completely drain it before I moved a couple of years ago. Had I known I'd find another place so quickly I probably wouldn't have even done that.

[froze]

Originally Posted by benb

I'm curious on the difference between regular Hario V60 and the Switch version being confounded by the grinder type and the selected grind size.

If you want longer contact time with a V60 you need a pretty fine grind.

If you don't have a grinder that gets down into Espresso range then the Switch would be necessary to keep the brew time up around where it needs to be.

I have an electric grinder that is of mediocre quality, it can't get down to espresso range, and I have a nicer hand grinder that does really nicely for espresso. On the electric grinder with some coffees I am getting pretty close to the fine end of it's range to get a 3 minute brew time. On the hand grinder I could probably clog the V60 and make it take 10 minutes to drain.

Froze I am curious how long you are brewing for with the switch.

I just got the Switch so I'm still goofing with it. Right now I'm following basically what the directions say and let it steep for 2 minutes after stirring it for a minute, then open the valve. I'm using a medium grind because that's what they recommend. My old regular V60 also recommended a medium grind, not an espresso grind.

So right now I put in the coffee first, then pour water over it slowly till the grounds are just covered, and let it set for 45 seconds to allow the grounds to bloom, then also like a pour-over I pour the water slowly around in a circle pattern from the outside to the inside and back out and repeat, once the water gets close to the top I start to stir the coffee for a minute, once that is done I let it sit for 2 minutes, then open the valve and it begins to drain into the cup. Tomorrow I'm going to try letting it steep longer, about 8 minutes, this is what I do for French Press, and since they are similar by using an immersion process I think a longer brew might be better?

You also will know if your grind is too small or too large by how long it takes the water to drain into the cup, you want to aim for between 3 1/2 minutes to 4 1/4 minutes, today mine was right at 3 3/4 minutes so my grind size I'm using was pretty spot on. That drain downtime is the same for the V60 as it is for the Switch.

There are other methods on YouTube where they claim the taste is better if you pour in the water first then dump in the coffee and stir, I can't see how that will change a darn thing, but I will try it. My coffee grinds once the water is all out looked exactly the same as the one that put the grounds in last. I think people get too creative and think they've come up with something new and better, mostly to attract subscribers to their YouTube channels.

There were things I came up with about 5 years ago and told people on YouTube about it such as putting an AeroPress filter in a 4-cup Moka pot now everyone is using that information acting like it's their thing, I don't care. That filter will last roughly 12 brew cycles. Now some company started making Moka Pot filters now! Wow, I should have looked into doing that, I didn't think that idea I came up with was all that great. I also found out that my small single-serving French Press also can use the AeroPress filter, or you can make your own if it doesn't fit by cutting one from a standard filter. Take the screen apart, poke a hole in the center of the filter, and stick it onto the stud, placing it between the screen and the bottom plate that has small round holes, screw the screen and everything back together, now you make French Press without nearly as much of the crud left in the cup, but it does take some of the oil out which some people like the oil. That filter in the French Press will last a very long time, I've had the same filter being used now for 5 years, no need to take it apart to clean it either, simply clean it by running it under hot water. I mentioned this on YouTube channels as well.

[scoobydrew]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

I've used a Rocket in the past. When it comes to these high end heat exchanger E61 machines, the internals are pretty similar and all unfortunately require similar upkeep. Back flushes, screen cleaning, possible descaling, etc. Part of the price to play....

+1. Pretty much all the same internally. Build quality may vary.

I don't think you can go wrong with a Profitec or ECM. Same company, but ECM has a bit more premium touches here and there (think Lexus vs. Toyota, Acura vs. Honda, etc.).

[oldguy00]

Originally Posted by scoobydrew

+1. Pretty much all the same internally. Build quality may vary.

I don't think you can go wrong with a Profitec or ECM. Same company, but ECM has a bit more premium touches here and there (think Lexus vs. Toyota, Acura vs. Honda, etc.).

The real dilemma.......my heart is with Rocket. Just something about them, their look, maybe the name, lol. The issue - my favourite retailer here in Canada (idrinkcoffee), whom offers amazing support, no longer carries Rocket. They do carry ECM. There are a few other places in Canada that offer Rocket, but don't have the same support. Just don't know if that really matters or not.

[rockdude]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

Has anyone cross shopped ECM and Rocket machines?

Thoughts on the following two heat exchanger / rotary pump machines:
Rocket Mozzafiato R
ECM Technika V Profi

Close in price, some asthetic differences etc

Just go with the Decent. So much more functionable and its the future and literally gets better with every nightly update, those horse and buggy machine are the past.

[oldguy00]

Originally Posted by rockdude

Just go with the Decent. So much more functionable and its the future and literally gets better with every nightly update, those horse and buggy machine are the past.

The Decent here in Canada would cost me roughly 1500 more than the other two I’m looking at. Too much. Plus, while I’m sure it works great, to me it looks like a Nespresso with an iPad on top. I much prefer the look of the traditional E61 machines like the rocket.

[jkbrwn]

Originally Posted by oldguy00

The Decent here in Canada would cost me roughly 1500 more than the other two I’m looking at. Too much. Plus, while I’m sure it works great, to me it looks like a Nespresso with an iPad on top. I much prefer the look of the traditional E61 machines like the rocket.

I get that. Also consider Lelit? My dad went from a Bianca X to a Decent and he doesn't regret it... but he did like the Bianca a lot. Particularly its flow control. I get the looks thing of the Decent. Not for everyone. If I was spending as much as you're considering I'd definitely want flow control, though? Looks like WLL will fit an e61 flow control knob for free to machines in your price range, but I'm guessing you'd be ordering from a Canadian retailer?