Are current gruppos ugly?

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by charliedid

It's a bike ride.....not a parade.

sure but lets discuss as per OP questions. Also why not have both form and function... its possible.

[El Chaba]

Well, there was a time when bike parts, and the aesthetic behind them, originated in France and Italy....primarily. Today, the major sources of manufacturing are in the Far East. While in Japan there is a great tradition of following the European aesthetic, there is very little left originating from Europe to follow. A bike is looked upon as a tool and nothing else....certainly not something that could be a thing of beauty.

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

Bikes in general are very ugly today...parts in particular. I often wonder if there is just nobody at these companies whose responsibility it is to make things look decent or are the current efforts on purpose? If it is the latter is it because the people designing the beasts now grew up with Lego and Transformer toys and that is their aesthetic? Many years ago there was a veteran racer around here who said when mountain bikes came out and asked if he was going to get one, “ No, I have no interest in riding in the dirt, getting muddy on purpose and destroying things. I didn’t grow up with monsters”....

He would have hated early road racing, what with unpaved roads and such.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

sure but lets discuss as per OP questions. Also why not have both form and function... its possible.

Can't please everyone.

Form exists whether someone likes it or not.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

Well, there was a time when bike parts, and the aesthetic behind them, originated in France and Italy....primarily. Today, the major sources of manufacturing are in the Far East. While in Japan there is a great tradition of following the European aesthetic, there is very little left originating from Europe to follow. A bike is looked upon as a tool and nothing else....certainly not something that could be a thing of beauty.

Are you confusing design with manufacturing?

[El Chaba]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Are you confusing design with manufacturing?

Not at all...the manufacturing moves first followed by the design....

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

Not at all...the manufacturing moves first followed by the design....

Maybe conflating is more appropriate on my part.

You're saying that the design is no longer in the hands of Italians at Campagnolo that it is outsourced to Taiwan or whichever country is doing the manufacturing?

Do I follow?

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

Well, there was a time when bike parts, and the aesthetic behind them, originated in France and Italy....primarily. Today, the major sources of manufacturing are in the Far East. While in Japan there is a great tradition of following the European aesthetic, there is very little left originating from Europe to follow. A bike is looked upon as a tool and nothing else....certainly not something that could be a thing of beauty.

I don't think old parts compromised function for aesthetics, a lot of the old French parts are still amazing today. There is still really nice stuff today, you mentioned Japan for example. Take Nitto which makes some of the best stuff today, incredible look and amanzingly functional and long lasting... you trade that for a few grams though.

[mtechnica]

new bad

old good

[El Chaba]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

I don't think old parts compromised function for aesthetics, a lot of the old French parts are still amazing today. There is still really nice stuff today, you mentioned Japan for example. Take Nitto which makes some of the best stuff today, incredible look and amanzingly functional and long lasting... you trade that for a few grams though.

I love Campagnolo. However, it has gone from the company that everyone copied to a nearly irrelevant bit player who is forced to copy far lesser makers just to have components that are even recognized as such in the market.

[Hilltopwalters]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

This thread is the bicycling equivalent of "They haven't made any good music since the 50/60/70s." It mostly just reveals one's age.

Well, this is Paceline after all, ha!

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

I love Campagnolo. However, it has gone from the company that everyone copied to a nearly irrelevant bit player who is forced to copy far lesser makers just to have components that are even recognized as such in the market.

I think Ekkar is campys greatest effort since 11 speed was released. Its a good one and I think will be very successful for them.

[Gibran]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

I think Ekkar is campys greatest effort since 11 speed was released. Its a good one and I think will be very successful for them.

Agree. Just to throw everyone into a frenzy, check out those cranks!

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

I love Campagnolo. However, it has gone from the company that everyone copied to a nearly irrelevant bit player who is forced to copy far lesser makers just to have components that are even recognized as such in the market.

Huh? Not even close to the mark.... like four fields over. I mean, your sentence doesn't even make sense unless you are suggesting that Campagnolo desires a product that looks like a copy of some other brand?

Originally Posted by El Chaba

Not at all...the manufacturing moves first followed by the design....

And to this, Campagnolo still does all design and 95% of manufacturing in Europe, so unless you disagree that there are only three large scale component manufacturers (Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM), I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that no one is designing and making groupsets in Europe. 1 in 3 of the large makers does. And if you want to include Rotor as a much, much smaller fourth component maker - all their stuff is designed and made in Madrid - y'know? home of Jose Maria Jiménez.

[rain dogs]

Bikes are ugly "currently".... so groupsets are obliged to follow in order to fit the aesthetic.