OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[bigbill]

We've looked at a third vehicle because we both drive diesel pickups (horse and travel trailers), and I'm intrigued by the Mazda plug-in hybrid. It has a 50-or-so-mile range on the battery and can be selected only to run that way. It also has a rotary engine generator for extended range. Rotary engines are lighter than their conventional counterparts, and the engine will run at a constant speed because it's driving a generator, not the wheels.

The town closest to me has a metric crap-tonne of Tesla Superchargers due to the proximity to I-40. The grocery stores have chargers at the far end of their parking lots, but not Tesla ones. I'm 20 miles north of town; we'd have to have our own charger.

[Nizzle]

I have a Toyota plug in electric and am a big fan. If you’ll be doing a lot of highway driving we wary of the electric only range though. The 40+mi I get in town/mixed is more like 30mi at 65mph+. Fully electric vehicles tend to be more aerodynamic/efficient per kWh than plug in electrics. Just something to keep in mind.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

People who complain that the electric grid can't handle EV proliferation forget that the introduction of the electric refrigerator put a load on the grid like never before and air conditioning was MUCH worse for grids. The grid WILL adapt because there is money to be made. Frankly, we need to completely remake the whole grid anyway. We need a smart grid to withstand a mass solar ejection. If a big enough solar storm hit today, it might be several YEARS before we could repair the millions of exploded transformers.

My focus is not toward just climate change, but the fact that our current energy focus is unsustainable. If you give a damn about future generations, we HAVE to change.

And the 'fix' will start...right after that solar storm knocks out millions of exploded transformers.

Yup, we DO 'have to change' but with the boys and girls in congress that actually make the laws, spend the $...they can't agree on ANYTHING. If it comes from the 'other side of the isle', regardless if it's a good idea, good for the american people, the 'other side' will block, criticize, blather and whine...

I remember the first 'Earth Day'...any idea when that happened? That's right, 52 years ago...and the arguments, the climate change deniers(including 'some who sat in the Big Chair) are as loud and well financed as ever.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

Tesla just cut the price of the Model Y:

https://tinyurl.com/mrkd27t6

As much as I want to get an EV, I don't think I drive enough to justify the cost. Max is maybe 40 mi/week shuttling kids to/from school and their activities. I have a 2009 CRV in good working condition (needs new tires soon) and a GX460 as a weekender. $50k+ buys a lot of gas.

Plug in hybrid might be the way to go for you.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

(...) As much as I want to get an EV, I don't think I drive enough to justify the cost. Max is maybe 40 mi/week (...)

That's 2,000 miles a year. I do 1,100 miles a year myself. There's no rush.

These are the early days of electric vehicles. You can now buy vehicles that will travel over 500 miles on a single charge, and it will probably be possible to travel 800-1,000 miles on a single charge before the end of the decade.

The electric vehicles for sale now will not be worth much in that world. It makes no sense to buy an electric vehicle now unless one has a present need for it.

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

Tesla just cut the price of the Model Y:

https://tinyurl.com/mrkd27t6

As much as I want to get an EV, I don't think I drive enough to justify the cost. Max is maybe 40 mi/week shuttling kids to/from school and their activities. I have a 2009 CRV in good working condition (needs new tires soon) and a GX460 as a weekender. $50k+ buys a lot of gas.

For environmental impact, your CRV has already been built and only impacts the environment with fuel and exhaust. It seems it would make sense to drive it until it wears out before replacing it with an electric or hybrid that would have to be manufactured.

To build hybrids, plug-ins, and purely electric vehicles requires materials and energy. Does it make sense to replace a perfectly good small car with a new hybrid? Many taxi companies chose to put close to a million miles on Crown Vics before replacing them with hybrids because it was cost effective to keep driving them. Using up existing assets before replacing them seems to be the responsible thing to do.

[MikeD]

I'm all for EVs, but I'm against the government legislating what type of vehicle I should buy. EVs won't move the global warming needle very much because electric power is mostly generated by fossil fuels and global warming is, well global. What some "utopian" state like California does will make no difference in the global scheme. In the end, EVs cost significantly more than gasoline powered vehicles and represents a tax increase to the public; same with banning cheaper to run natural gas home furnaces, water heaters, and stoves. Utilities are set to raise electricity rates 17% in Cali this year and they just made residential solar more expensive because they changed the NEM metering rules.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by MikeD

(...) EVs won't move the global warming needle very much because electric power is mostly generated by fossil fuels (...)

Electric vehicles are desirable because electricity can be generated with renewable energy. Here is an article on renewable energy growth from the level-headed folks at Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier...h=3748de112025

From the article: "China is the world’s top consumer of renewable energy. "

China is the single largest automobile market, and is among the nations phasing out the sale of fossil fuel vehicles:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/...cles-electric/

China has big plans for investing in renewable energy:

https://www.csis.org/east-green-chin...newable-energy

I'm sure a forum for cyclists can appreciate the fossil fuel industry is not our friend. They would like us to ignore the writing on the wall.

The US needs to step up and dominate the renewable electricity generation industry, or lose it to the Chinese. The fossil fuel industry will be a fossil itself for certain. The only uncertainty is which country will own the market for its replacement.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

Electric vehicles are desirable because electricity can be generated with renewable energy. Here is an article on renewable energy growth from the level-headed folks at Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier...h=3748de112025

From the article: "China is the world’s top consumer of renewable energy. "

China is the single largest automobile market, and is among the nations phasing out the sale of fossil fuel vehicles:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/...cles-electric/

China has big plans for investing in renewable energy:

https://www.csis.org/east-green-chin...newable-energy

I'm sure a forum for cyclists can appreciate the fossil fuel industry is not our friend. They would like us to ignore the writing on the wall.

The US needs to step up and dominate the renewable electricity generation industry, or lose it to the Chinese. The fossil fuel industry will be a fossil itself for certain. The only uncertainty is which country will own the market for its replacement.

Don't believe the media BS. China is building coal fired power plants like crazy right now. Green energy is important, but by no means can it currently replace fossil fuels and there's no viable, economic way to store excess solar energy generated during the day. Look at what's happening in Europe, especially Germany when they decided to shut down their nuclear power plants.

[dgauthier]

I predict the fossil fuel industry's FUD will not be able to stand up to the free market forces at work right now. They are toast.

This will all play itself out in the next few years. It will be interesting to read these posts at that time and see what shook out.

[robt57]

This, as usual, has diverged well past the 'vehicle in use'. Which is fine, but I wanted to throw a 'use' data point out there.

Heat [cabin]: Both our PHEV and Bolt are slow (like 80s-90s ICE cars) to come up with the cabin heat. Easy to fix with remote starts.

In an effort to get the price of both of these uber high, packages with seat heat and steering wheel etc help this. Try to find these, especially the Pacifica with low packages without, well they use the chips they do get wisely...

But I find when it is very cold, I intentionally press/floor the switch/pedal that approximates a gas pedal. This thus request add in the ICE motor and the heat comes up in less than a minute.

Side note: the PHEV below 39^ will start the ICE motor upon remote starts. I've come disapprove of hearing it run, and use gas.

[pdxharth]

Yep, this is the best situation right now, and I feel lucky to have the old Leaf and the C-Max Energi. In a few years, we’ll upgrade the C-Max to a full EV, but for now, it is a great combo.

Originally Posted by robt57

Yeah, the PHEV and EV 2 car combo is great.

Pacifica range touts 540miles. I've got 520 once.

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by robt57

This, as usual, has diverged well past the 'vehicle in use'. Which is fine, but I wanted to throw a 'use' data point out there.

Heat [cabin]: Both our PHEV and Bolt are slow (like 80s-90s ICE cars) to come up with the cabin heat. Easy to fix with remote starts.

In an effort to get the price of both of these uber high, packages with seat heat and steering wheel etc help this. Try to find these, especially the Pacifica with low packages without, well they use the chips they do get wisely...

But I find when it is very cold, I intentionally press/floor the switch/pedal that approximates a gas pedal. This thus request add in the ICE motor and the heat comes up in less than a minute.

Side note: the PHEV below 39^ will start the ICE motor upon remote starts. I've come disapprove of hearing it run, and use gas.

Some one want to interpret this, please?

[Germany_chris]

I’ll probably replace my alltrack in 2026 or 2027 with an ID Buzz

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by robt57

This, as usual, has diverged well past the 'vehicle in use'. Which is fine, but I wanted to throw a 'use' data point out there.

Heat [cabin]: Both our PHEV and Bolt are slow (like 80s-90s ICE cars) to come up with the cabin heat. Easy to fix with remote starts.

In an effort to get the price of both of these uber high, packages with seat heat and steering wheel etc help this. Try to find these, especially the Pacifica with low packages without, well they use the chips they do get wisely...

But I find when it is very cold, I intentionally press/floor the switch/pedal that approximates a gas pedal. This thus request add in the ICE motor and the heat comes up in less than a minute.

Side note: the PHEV below 39^ will start the ICE motor upon remote starts. I've come disapprove of hearing it run, and use gas.

Tesla will precondition the battery and cabin when plugged in. This means a toasty cabin and seats and steering wheel when you’re ready to go. The functionality is in the app that is part of Tesla life.

Without being plugged in it may not precondition the battery, just the cabin. I’m honestly not certain.

When plugged in and preconditioning, it is obviously drawing from the power source. The heat pump runs and it’s clearly “on” but there is obviously no engine so this process can happen in a closed garage, which is how it works at my house.

The Tesla is pretty quick to heat the cabin, but a super cold-soaked car will still have to obey the laws of physics to warm up. Also, it’s definitely less efficient at very cold temps and when it has to use its own juice to get the battery to optimal operating temperature.