Moots Carbon Gravel E-bike!

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by markdjr

This example is not ideal, I would hope that Moots could have done a bit better, but at least its a proof of concept. Personally I think if they wanted to manage tube dimensions they could have split the battery between the top tube and downtube.

Just personal opinion, I think the Moots looks better, as does almost any other carbon e-bike. There are carbon e-bikes out there that look even better than the Moots, proportional, svelte, etc., but i do think the bulbous nature of the battery doesn't lend itself to metal tubing shapes, even if we ignore how stiff the tube gets under the gauge and diameter required to support the battery/motor at the highest torque area on the bike.

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Yeah, he’s prone to subjective hot-takes on occasion but his actual reviews of the actual product are generally objective and trustworthy. Case in point, the first half of the sentence above..

I don’t think anyone here has said the bike is a bad e-bike.

The point being is he’s a pretty “rational” actor in the industry and spent over a thousand words pulling apart the corporate justify-our-decision speak from Moot’s new owners when they responded to his questions.

If anything it provides some insight helpful for empathy as to the visceral reaction from punters.

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Just personal opinion, I think the Moots looks better, as does almost any other carbon e-bike. There are carbon e-bikes out there that look even better than the Moots, proportional, svelte, etc., but i do think the bulbous nature of the battery doesn't lend itself to metal tubing shapes, even if we ignore how stiff the tube gets under the gauge and diameter required to support the battery/motor at the highest torque area on the bike.

Firefly also did an e-bike, although external battery (looks pretty bad).

The point being, I think, is that Moots’ bluster about torque and motors is bunk as there’s no issue there; Firefly is not a backyard builder.

The battery is clearly the key issue here, but as noted it would seem that a novel approach could have been using slightly, but not dramatically, larger tubes to house batteries.

The obvious implication is that a novel approach requires something that going to China and making a carbon Ebike does not. Research, development, time, money, risk, etc.

For a company like Moots, I would’ve thought taking the high road was the only way. But I guess this is the reality of the new ownership structure, and potentially what we’ll refer to the beginning of their Covid-era-investor-induced demise in a few years time.

Or perhaps Moots gets bought back for pennies on the dollar a la Wahoo (different debt situation though, maybe) and the sun rises again.

[merckxman]

In NJ:
Class-3 Motorized Bike (Moped)

"Other than class 1 and class 2 e-bikes, there is also a category for class-3 e-bikes, which are characterized as motorized bicycles. Title 39 states that in order to operate a class-3 motorized bicycle, you need to be over 15 years of age, have a license, and wear a helmet no matter how old you are."

Originally Posted by Gwerziou

E-bikes certainly have value as a form of transportation for the masses. I think of them as more 'bicycle adjacent' rather than bicycles per se. The value for those with health issues that preclude cycling is significant, offering them a bicycle-like experience.

They do push the actual bicycle to a 'second-tier' status on the nominal bike paths in the urban area that I commute in - now heavy motorized vehicles with sometimes clueless operators are right on the bike paths: look out.

To me, the most appealing thing about them is that you don't need a license and insurance. This is a huge advantage over motorcycles, which have those costs attached and also can't ride on bike paths etc. I have to hand it to the smart minds that found a way to introduce motorized vehicles that skirt regulation and licensure and can run freely on the paths, sidewalks, streets, and trails of my area.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by jimoots

Firefly also did an e-bike, although external battery (looks pretty bad).

The point being, I think, is that Moots’ bluster about torque and motors is bunk as there’s no issue there; Firefly is not a backyard builder.

The battery is clearly the key issue here, but as noted it would seem that a novel approach could have been using slightly, but not dramatically, larger tubes to house batteries.

The obvious implication is that a novel approach requires something that going to China and making a carbon Ebike does not. Research, development, time, money, risk, etc.

For a company like Moots, I would’ve thought taking the high road was the only way. But I guess this is the reality of the new ownership structure, and potentially what we’ll refer to the beginning of their Covid-era-investor-induced demise in a few years time.

Or perhaps Moots gets bought back for pennies on the dollar a la Wahoo (different debt situation though, maybe) and the sun rises again.

That's one interpretation. The other is that they did the work and decided they couldn't build the product they wanted in Ti. That Firefly has done so doesn't mean it was something the Moots team was happy with.

[cequip]

I wonder what language the famed "yellow card" will be in?

[wallymann]

Originally Posted by dsimon

why do companies do so well at something always want to try something else. Ill never get it.. "If it aint broken" keep making titanium

• motorola razr
• blackberry
• sony betamax

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by wallymann

• motorola razr
• blackberry
• sony betamax

If they really wanted this upper end of market, custom... Need touring racks, sure, need high stack height sure, etc etc.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Gwerziou

E-bikes certainly have value as a form of transportation for the masses. I think of them as more 'bicycle adjacent' rather than bicycles per se. The value for those with health issues that preclude cycling is significant, offering them a bicycle-like experience.

They do push the actual bicycle to a 'second-tier' status on the nominal bike paths in the urban area that I commute in - now heavy motorized vehicles with sometimes clueless operators are right on the bike paths: look out.

To me, the most appealing thing about them is that you don't need a license and insurance. This is a huge advantage over motorcycles, which have those costs attached and also can't ride on bike paths etc. I have to hand it to the smart minds that found a way to introduce motorized vehicles that skirt regulation and licensure and can run freely on the paths, sidewalks, streets, and trails of my area.

Really? You think it's great that 'smart minds' have introduced electric motorized scooters, that have a throttle(no pedaling necessary) that can zip around on paths and sidewalks?..How is this any different than a ICE scooter being in the same place? You mentioned 'heavily motorized vehicles with clueless operators'..it's that the same thing that 'smart minds' have introduced?

I think E-assisted bikes are great..BUT 'E' bikes with a throttle, where you don't have to pedal..are scooters, and don't belong on MUP, sidewalks any more than the below does. Which also, at least in Colorado, DON'T require license plates or a driver's license(49cc and below).

[Likes2ridefar]

What’s the difference between me on my previous radwagon 4 on the greenways around the area, which has a throttle and maxed at 20mph, compared to me on my current Benno Remidemi, which has no throttle and is pedal assisted to 20mph?

Both I go pretty much exactly the same speed riding them and are otherwise similar bikes.

[wkeller79]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

What’s the difference between me on my previous radwagon 4 on the greenways around the area, which has a throttle and maxed at 20mph, compared to me on my current Benno Remidemi, which has no throttle and is pedal assisted to 20mph?

Both I go pretty much exactly the same speed riding them and are otherwise similar bikes.

You're a grown person that doesn't know what a throttle is? And you should most def not be riding your motorcycles on the greenways. Use the road with the automobiles.

[pdonk]

Have not had a chance to listen to it yet, but came across my feed:

"Moots explains the Express carbon e-gravel bike" podcast on bike rumour

https://bikerumor.com/podcast-088-mo...e-gravel-bike/

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by pdonk

Have not had a chance to listen to it yet, but came across my feed:

"Moots explains the Express carbon e-gravel bike" podcast on bike rumour

https://bikerumor.com/podcast-088-mo...e-gravel-bike/

"We believe" so you should believe.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by wkeller79

You're a grown person that doesn't know what a throttle is? And you should most def not be riding your motorcycles on the greenways. Use the road with the automobiles.

It was a rhetorical question. Both of the bikes I mentioned are legally allowed to ride on the greenways and parks where I live.

[wkeller79]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

It was a rhetorical question. Both of the bikes I mentioned are legally allowed to ride on the greenways and parks where I live.

Oh I'm sure walkers / joggers / pets love that you're taking advantage of that legality.