OT: sportwagen

[dmitrik4]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Probably because then you'd have to look at an ID4

^^correct

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

EV or EV/Hybrid SportWagen? No such animal and VW has no plans to make another wagen. They are all in on small 'SUVs'..like Tiguan, Taos and even a big one..

Are there any wagons left for America? I dont really count the S6 Avant or M5 in this, given the price/performance and there's no way that I would treat it like, well, a family car.

[dmitrik4]

Originally Posted by tv_vt

You want a hybrid wagon, do ya? Just wait a year for the BMW M5 Touring to hit the shores. Monstrous V-8, plus a near-200hp electric motor for >700hp. But sorry, no manual.

More here: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...touring-drive/

Oh yeah, it's also a wee bit more expensive than a Sportwagen. Well, actually, it's more expensive than at least 3 Sportwagens, maybe 4.

Yep. Anything I’d replace mine with is either really boring or hideously expensive.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Are there any wagons left for America? I dont really count the S6 Avant or M5 in this, given the price/performance and there's no way that I would treat it like, well, a family car.

Volvo V60 and V90
Audi Allroad A4 and A6
MB E Wagon
Porsche Taycan Turismo

each is at least an upscale car (starting at $50k).

[trener1]

The Volvo V60 Plus in hybrid looks pretty sweet to me, though still not cheap by any means.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by echappist

each is at least an upscale car (starting at $50k).

Does $50k even qualify as upscale anymore?

The A6 Avant does look pretty good - probably way too nice to fill up with mountain bike mud, dog hair and goldfish. My 2008 A4 Avant (K04 turbo, tuned) was probably the best car I've ever owned.

[martl]

Originally Posted by echappist

Volvo V60 and V90
Audi Allroad A4 and A6
MB E Wagon
Porsche Taycan Turismo

each is at least an upscale car (starting at $50k).

Subi Legacy?

[echappist]

Originally Posted by trener1

The Volvo V60 Plus in hybrid looks pretty sweet to me, though still not cheap by any means.

$72k starting price, or 68.4k when doing overseas delivery…

Not that we need a new car, but a hybrid V60/ V90 would be nice (assuming Volvo still makes them 6-7yrs from now).

Originally Posted by .RJ

Does $50k even qualify as upscale anymore?

The A6 Avant does look pretty good - probably way too nice to fill up with mountain bike mud, dog hair and goldfish. My 2008 A4 Avant (K04 turbo, tuned) was probably the best car I've ever owned.

The A6 Avant is a racer’s car.

A6 Allroad is a bit more practical. Can also get the claddings painted to match the rest. I’d get it if it had better reliability.

I still consider $40k to be start of upscale. Why so many purchase new cars at that price point (and above) while not having the financial wherewithals, is an indictment of mass consumer behavior.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by echappist

A6 Allroad is a bit more practical. Can also get the claddings painted to match the rest. I’d get it if it had better reliability.

I've found modern VW/Audi to be very reliable, FWIW.

Introducing a lot of new tech (safety features, screens, etc) plus supply chain problems the past few years has hit pretty much all the car manufacturers with some issues.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by martl

Subi Legacy?

No longer available new in the U.S. It’s a legacy vehicle, if you will

What is available is the Mad Max style Outback. Except its chassis sits at the height of an SUV (such as the forrester), and its roof is about 7” above that of my Volvo V60 CC (raised wagon). In other words, not a proper wagon.

Subaru does still make proper wagons/ estates though, but its Levorg estate isn’t available in the U.S.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by echappist

I still consider $40k to be start of upscale.

Pretty much. A loaded Accord Hybrid stickers for right around $40k. And an Acura TLX starts at $45.

Of course, that's just sedans. SUVs and trucks seem to run around close to $10k more for similar size and levels of luxury. Acura MDX starts a bit of $50k.

[zap]

Plenty of wagon choices in Europe (we rented a VW Arteon Shooting Brake in Germany recently) but alas, in NA it's SUV's.

We test drove a few SUV's and I'm struggling to find the appeal driving dynamics wise for most. Many say the BMW X5 is the best (excepting the Porsche Cayenne) but when we drove it there were time's it felt....tippy.

The best we drove so far was the Acura MDX Type S. Oddles of space and felt most car like when going down country roads.

[Elefantino]

.
Told the better half I want this.
"Ooh, that's nice."
"And it's a hybrid!"
"How much?"
"Um, about $125,000"
" ........... "

[CDollarsign]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Are there any wagons left for America? I dont really count the S6 Avant or M5 in this, given the price/performance and there's no way that I would treat it like, well, a family car.

I absolutely love my Volvo V90 Cross Country. It has been surprisingly reliable in comparison to the Audi A4 Avant I had previously. I think modern Volvos are understated and just as nice on the inside as BWM, Audi, MB.

[martl]

Originally Posted by echappist

Subaru does still make proper wagons/ estates though, but its Levorg estate isn’t available in the U.S.

i'm not surprised it is not on the usmarket. It is tiny next to my Forester.
I guess it fits about 4 portugese jockeys or one average (non-bike-riding) american