OT: 3PMSF all season tires vs real snows

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by froze

I don't like Subaru cars, BUT, I've seen several tests done on YouTube and the Foresters have the best traction on ice and snow of any AWD on the market by far! So if I lived in areas like Bozo, I would own a Sub Forester. Combine that car with Blizzak tires when snow first starts to fall, and a person could almost go anywhere around areas like that in the snow or on the ice.

Be forewarned though on ice, no matter what kind of tires you have, what kind of car you have, whether it's AWD or 4WD, ice is ice, sure you have good starting traction with the Suby, but that doesn't mean you can go bombing down an ice covered road and think nothing of it! No, you have to drive sanely, realizing you're not going to stop well.

The other problem with Subs is there AWD system has the tightest tolerances of any AWD on the market, and what that means for example is this, if you have 50% wear on all your tires, and you destroy a tire, YOU HAVE TO BUY 4 NEW TIRES! Subarus can't take more than 2/32nds of rubber difference between all the tires. That is a pain with Subs, but for an area with lots of snow and ice, it's a pain worth taking. The only way you can get around not pay for 4 new tires is IF, and that's a HUGE IF, a tire shop has a tire shaver, they can shave enough rubber off the new tire to match the others. Tire shavers use to be fairly common over 40 years ago at larger tire shops, but now they are very difficult to find. The other thing about that tolerance problem is you should be rotating your tires about twice as often as you would normally with any other car to reduce the chances of having a greater than 2/32nds difference.

It's that tire situation is why I don't like Subys, but where I live I don't get enough snow and ice to warrant buying such a car.

So a forester is better than a crosstrek or outback? The tire comments arent a Subaru only challenge and you’ll hear the same story for most if not all AWD vehicles. I know I did with my BMW. Whether it’s true or needed is another matter…

[froze]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

So a forester is better than a crosstrek or outback? The tire comments arent a Subaru only challenge and you’ll hear the same story for most if not all AWD vehicles. I know I did with my BMW. Whether it’s true or needed is another matter…

Subaru uses 3 maybe 4 different AWD systems in their models:

Viscous-coupling Centre Differential AWD
This system is used for all models equipped with manual transmissions, excluding the WRX STI. It delivers the sporty satisfaction of quick shifts combined with an AWD system that makes the most of the available traction at all times. This system also features an efficient layout with a viscous-coupling limited slip centre differential that maintains a 50/50 front/rear torque split for optimum torque distribution, near neutral handling and surefooted performance.

Active Torque Split AWD This system employs a multi-plate transfer clutch that maintains a 60/40 front/rear torque split and uses a range of sensors to automatically adjust this split on-the-fly as conditions warrant, creating more predictable handling. The system that's linked to all Subaru models (excluding WRX) equipped with the Lineartronic® Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT), the Active Torque Split AWD places the focus on ease of operation, fuel efficiency and reliability.

Variable Torque Distribution AWD Linked to the Subaru Performance Transmission® (SPT) and exclusive to the WRX, this AWD system delivers sportier performance and superior efficiency all at once. The centre differential adjusts front/rear torque split from 45/55 in normal conditions (for a sportier rear-biased feel) up to 50/50 when the weather worsens or the road conditions deteriorate (for maximum traction). The viscous self-locking rear differential maintains stability when more torque is sent to the rear wheels, ensuring the perfect balance of control and fun.

There is supposedly a 4th one.

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBQlK89PyxQ

[jds108]

Originally Posted by jadmt

my daughter and son in-law live in bozo, well three forks as they could not afford to buy in bozo. they both run blizzaks in the winter. Subaru awd and civic.

I have used Blizzaks and they're great. But studded are a whole other level better.

[hokoman]

Originally Posted by Derosid

However, all it takes is one trip to Buffalo in a snowstorm and I’m glad I still have the Hakka’s on the car.

When I lived in Brooklyn, we would drive upstate on the weekends. I swapped out to snow tires on our Odyssey and then swapped back after snow season. It's cheap 'insurance' if it helps me during one trip.

If anyone has a Pilot or Odyssey and looking for snow wheels, I have a set of oem pilot wheels, with Blizzaks that were used one winter and stored in climate controlled basement since. I just sold my car to Carvana. Also have autel TPM sensor machine.

[jadmt]

just put some Michelin CC2's on and think I am going to be pretty happy with them..super quiet and smooth ride...took a drive to GNP with them.
https://imgur.com/a/gtUOjBw

[fourflys]

the idea that AWD doesn't help you when turning (I assume you also mean going around a corner?) is "interesting".. Having owned RWD, FWD, and AWD cars in different parts of the country and I can say AWD certainly helps you corner and I would also say it helps on sharper turns as well..

when going around a turn a FWD car will pull you around the turn and, if going too fast for the turn, will continue to plow through the turn when traction is exceeded. a RWD car will push you through the tune and, if going too fast, will begin to oversteer as it kicks the rear end out when traction is exceeded. An AWD car will use a combination of push and pull as you navigate the corner and keep you on the road longer than either FWD/RWD.. a skilled driver can certainly use RWD to rotate around the turn, but many folks are not that skilled (regardless of what they think), so AWD will usually outperform a FWD/RWD car in spirited driving/loose surface driving. AWD with all of the driving safety features most cars have now is the best option for most drivers IMHO..

as far as studs, I used them when I lived in Kodiak AK twice for 3 yrs each (so noisy!!).. generally, they helped me get going at an icy intersection.. I'm also sure they helped a bit when stopping, but I saw so many "bro trucks" with studs off the side of the road on a curve because they thought the studs would hold them on the road.. if I went back to an icy area, I would probably get studless winter tires (like the Blizzack) now..

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by fourflys

the idea that AWD doesn't help you when turning (I assume you also mean going around a corner?) is "interesting"..

What the engine is doing has little relevance when you are off the gas and into the turn, and matters even less when trying to stop.

The point was that AWD isnt a substitute for the right tires.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by .RJ

What the engine is doing has little relevance when you are off the gas and into the turn, and matters even less when trying to stop.

The point was that AWD isnt a substitute for the right tires.

I would agree tires are important and AWD will certainly help if you know how to drive it.. same as a RWD car if the rear starts to kick out a bit and you just let off the gas.. probably gonna do a 180.. but if you just throttle back a bit, the car could very well get right back in line.. but your are correct, if you just let off the gas as you go through the corner, AWD will be useless..