OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

I can't read that article, do you have an unpaywalled source?

In the meantime, I found this:
https://www.gbnews.com/money/energy-...ghest-in-world
From the article (emphasis mine):
"(...) UK Steel reports that electricity remains roughly twice as expensive as in Germany. The disparity is attributed to the UK's greater reliance on gas for electricity generation, with 33.7 per cent of power coming from this source in 2023."

Germany getting 35.7% of its electricity from burning coal and biomass (trees from the southeastern US) would help it keep its rates low, don't you think?

And Germany are burning their own lignite coal - the dirtiest kind - and having it make up half of that 35.7% is not terribly environmental friendly either.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

Germany getting 35.7% of its electricity from burning coal and biomass (trees from the southeastern US) would help it keep its rates low, don't you think?

And Germany are burning their own lignite coal - the dirtiest kind - and having it make up half of that 35.7% is not terribly environmental friendly either.

This is interesting and I believe it to be true. They caved to the anti-nuclear lobby and have been shutting down nuclear plants.

I know it’s tangential to this and I don’t wish to get anyone riled up, but I do believe that nuclear power is a smart part of any electrical future. Learning lessons from past mistakes, it can be very safe and very clean. That’s my $.02. It’s very misunderstood by many people.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by saab2000

This is interesting and I believe it to be true. They caved to the anti-nuclear lobby and have been shutting down nuclear plants.

I know it’s tangential to this and I don’t wish to get anyone riled up, but I do believe that nuclear power is a smart part of any electrical future. Learning lessons from past mistakes, it can be very safe and very clean. That’s my $.02. It’s very misunderstood by many people.

Nuclear is the answer. Anyone who says they care about the climate or the environment and is also anti-nuclear, doesn't really care about those things.

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

Germany getting 35.7% of its electricity from burning coal and biomass (trees from the southeastern US) would help it keep its rates low, don't you think?

And Germany are burning their own lignite coal - the dirtiest kind - and having it make up half of that 35.7% is not terribly environmental friendly either.

Like many things, it's complicated.

You and I would expect electricity prices to be the weighted average of the costs of all the sources that provide electricity. Nope. The cost is set by the cost of "the last unit of electricity needed to meet demand." This is usually expensive because it's purchased on the spot market. The irony is the UK actually has lower domestic gas prices than the average price in the EU.

I found this analysis about UK energy prices relative to the EU:
https://www.nesta.org.uk/blog/uk-hou...ny-eu-country/

From the article (emphasis mine):
"- (UK) Gas prices were the 9th least expensive compared to 27 EU countries and the 2nd least expensive compared to the 14 countries that were members of the EU prior to 2004, standing at £0.08 per kWh (all taxes and levies included).
- Last year, renewables accounted for a record 47.3% of electricity generation in the UK – but the low cost of renewables is not being passed on to consumers.
- One reason that electricity prices are high in the UK is that gas sets the marginal price more often than in any EU nation, doing so 97% of the time in 2021.
(...)
The wholesale price of electricity is set by the cost of producing the last unit of electricity needed to meet demand, which is nearly always generated by gas power plants with high marginal costs. (...) In Great Britain, as in many other electricity markets, the price is determined by the most expensive source required to meet demand."

Who knew?

This might be why these problems seem to take so long to solve. They're *hard*...

[robt57]

ENEL X Way JuiceBox surprise.

>After careful consideration, Enel X Way North America has decided to close its electric mobility business in the US and Canada, operated by the local subsidiary of Enel X Way USA, effective October 11, 2024.

> Residential charging hardware (JuiceBox) will maintain the physical operating ability to charge vehicles.

All Enel X Way software will be discontinued. Commercial charging stations will lose functionality in the absence of software continuity.

The Enel X Way App and all other Enel e-mobility apps in North America will be discontinued and removed from the App Store.

Enel X Way customer support is no longer available, effective immediately. Any Enel X Way related questions and claims should be directed to juiceboxnorthamerica.com.

juiceboxnorthamerica.com site just shows a web page showing the above [I truncated for thread].


Freaking things better keep working...

[yngpunk]

Originally Posted by robt57

ENEL X Way JuiceBox surprise.

>After careful consideration, Enel X Way North America has decided to close its electric mobility business in the US and Canada, operated by the local subsidiary of Enel X Way USA, effective October 11, 2024.

> Residential charging hardware (JuiceBox) will maintain the physical operating ability to charge vehicles.

All Enel X Way software will be discontinued. Commercial charging stations will lose functionality in the absence of software continuity.

The Enel X Way App and all other Enel e-mobility apps in North America will be discontinued and removed from the App Store.

Enel X Way customer support is no longer available, effective immediately. Any Enel X Way related questions and claims should be directed to juiceboxnorthamerica.com.

juiceboxnorthamerica.com site just shows a web page showing the above [I truncated for thread].


Freaking things better keep working...

Don't know how many Enel X commercial charging stations are out in the wild...I suspect not that many, so impact seems minimal. States that residential (JuiceBox - Level 2) will still work. Not surprising, since these are "dumb" (i.e. no internet connectivity). Likely issue is if you have a JuiceBox charger still under warranty, but otherwise shouldn't be an issue, but you might have to use your vehicles software to manage home charging vs. Juice box software going forward.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by yngpunk

Don't know how many Enel X commercial charging stations are out in the wild...I suspect not that many, so impact seems minimal. States that residential (JuiceBox - Level 2) will still work. Not surprising, since these are "dumb" (i.e. no internet connectivity). Likely issue is if you have a JuiceBox charger still under warranty, but otherwise shouldn't be an issue, but you might have to use your vehicles software to manage home charging vs. Juice box software going forward.

Well, my JB-32 isn't dumb. In fact the setup getting it on the net was a PITA. I never tried using it before the setup. But I seem to recall it was just blinking before I did it approx 2 years ago. And was not usable prior.

I went into the software, apparently I am not the only one doing this as it took multiple tries and times outs etc.

I had my scheduling set up in the JB and not the car. Wanted to get in there and delete the JB schedule before just in case it get stuck in there or something. #nontrust. Was able to after retrys every step of the way.

Mine is still in 3 year warranty, I may contest the CC charge frankly.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by robt57

Mine is still in 3 year warranty, I may contest the CC charge frankly.

Good luck with that if the purchase was more than a year ago (ask me how I know … er, actually, please don't). Maybe your CC issuer is more generous than mine.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by dgauthier

Like many things, it's complicated.

You and I would expect electricity prices to be the weighted average of the costs of all the sources that provide electricity. Nope. The cost is set by the cost of "the last unit of electricity needed to meet demand." This is usually expensive because it's purchased on the spot market. The irony is the UK actually has lower domestic gas prices than the average price in the EU.

I found this analysis about UK energy prices relative to the EU:
https://www.nesta.org.uk/blog/uk-hou...ny-eu-country/

From the article (emphasis mine):
"- (UK) Gas prices were the 9th least expensive compared to 27 EU countries and the 2nd least expensive compared to the 14 countries that were members of the EU prior to 2004, standing at £0.08 per kWh (all taxes and levies included).
- Last year, renewables accounted for a record 47.3% of electricity generation in the UK – but the low cost of renewables is not being passed on to consumers.
- One reason that electricity prices are high in the UK is that gas sets the marginal price more often than in any EU nation, doing so 97% of the time in 2021.
(...)
The wholesale price of electricity is set by the cost of producing the last unit of electricity needed to meet demand, which is nearly always generated by gas power plants with high marginal costs. (...) In Great Britain, as in many other electricity markets, the price is determined by the most expensive source required to meet demand."

Who knew?

This might be why these problems seem to take so long to solve. They're *hard*...

If you want to know how this feels as a consumer, the cost of my electricity in London (I use Octopus) went up 105% from 2021 until 2024 (a double)

October 2022 because of the Ukraine invasion and spike in Natural Gas, my October was up 250%. (Yeah 3.5x) But the UK Gov has a price cap which is the maximum amount you have to pay as a household to prevent energy poverty. The price stayed there for about 2 mo and cause massive panic and disruption in the industry. A few smaller energy providers went bankrupt and you saw consolidation of customers with the big players.

OFGEM (the regulator) sets the max caps. I think this month in September was the first I have seen rates decline since early 2023, and maybe we will get a 9.5% decrease going forward.

The max power usage is usually in the early evening when wind and solar power are declining, and natural gas demand is increasing for the grid. So you have this insidious impact.

[robt57]

For the thread, this is what juice costs here.

I have the Time of Day Pricing.

This alone has dropped the EV charging cost to 1/2 previously, and we used to have 2, Bolt and PHEV Van. Just the Bolt now.

Mid peak is pretty much what we had 24/7 previously. Actually 1-2cents more IIRC.

But with a timer on the WH, and running the DW, Doing laundry weekends, or after 21:00 [Dryer is Elec here] this is lowering costs. Although I got an email they are no longer offering it, so I think we only are going to get one year on it. At least they didn't kick us off straight out.

We had a couple hot groups of day this summer where A/C had to be on or house turned into oven. I went warmer in the 5-9pm window and the hit was still in the savings dept. Although 1st year using central V/S portables so not sure that alone was less than 3 portables...

I can say looking at the records @ PGE April to Sept 2023 VS 2024. 2023 was over 1k kWh per month, 2024 was under about 15%. Question is how much of it was the PHEV getting charged.

[klasse]

Those are great rates, Bob. Here in Venice, CA. I pay 20-25 cents per KWh. I hope to go solar within ~18 months!

[dgauthier]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

If you want to know how this feels as a consumer, the cost of my electricity in London (I use Octopus) went up 105% from 2021 until 2024 (a double)

October 2022 because of the Ukraine invasion and spike in Natural Gas, my October was up 250%. (Yeah 3.5x) But the UK Gov has a price cap which is the maximum amount you have to pay as a household to prevent energy poverty. The price stayed there for about 2 mo and cause massive panic and disruption in the industry. A few smaller energy providers went bankrupt and you saw consolidation of customers with the big players.

OFGEM (the regulator) sets the max caps. I think this month in September was the first I have seen rates decline since early 2023, and maybe we will get a 9.5% decrease going forward.

The max power usage is usually in the early evening when wind and solar power are declining, and natural gas demand is increasing for the grid. So you have this insidious impact.

I'm sorry to hear that. What a nightmare.

On the upside, the push to renewables in the UK and EU (and everywhere) will help isolate local energy prices against disturbances from abroad, but that won't happen overnight.

The Nesta article includes a graph showing taxes and levies on UK electricity prices add some 35% to the cost. At least taxes and levies are under more immediate control. The article concludes with: "The next UK government should reform levies that artificially increase the price of electricity while scaling up renewable generation and explore other market reforms that could reduce costs."

I hope the UK government can reach a consensus to address the problem.

[merckxman]

Besides the registration fees info I previously posted, NJ now "cuts in half a full exemption from the state’s sales tax when purchasing, leasing or renting new and used electric vehicles.....As a result, from Oct. 1 through June 30, 2025, a 3.3125% tax will be levied in New Jersey on such transactions, according to a notice posted online by the state Division of Taxation. From there, the same tax law calls for the state’s full sales tax of 6.625% to be levied on transactions involving zero-emission vehicles, beginning July 1, 202
https://www.njspotlightnews.org/2024...electric-cars/

Originally Posted by merckxman

The NJ registration fees, renewals and at purchase, for EVs: https://nj1015.com/why-certain-nj-dr...l-in-the-mail/