rip: Pete Rose entered the cosmic hall of fame today

[glepore]

Yeah, dumb to argue about a country club/popularity contest . He did what he did on the field, mike drop.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

Let's say you believe that Rose only ever bet on his team to win. If you have an understanding of a 162 game season and bullpen management you can imagine the very real problems here.

This is a very good point. Goes to makoti's "integrity" theme.

[Elefantino]

The former Reds broadcaster Marty Brennaman and I were in Rose's office in 1987 when Rose was on a phone call with his bookie.

I am not making this up. He was not betting on baseball, but on horses. Still, it was weird that he was on the call while a strange baseball writer from the Bay Area was sitting across his desk.

[bikingshearer]

Originally Posted by el cheapo

When Rose bet, he bet on his team to win. This apparently all happened when he was the team's manager. According to him, he never bet against his team or threw a game. As one of the game's hardest players, I believe he could never lose a game on purpose. Where he went wrong was lying about what he did. H.O.F. ? Yes!

No. Lying compounded the felony and may have turned a ban for a number of years into a lifetime ban. So did Bart Giamatti dying so soon after having to resolve the mess Rose created. But the actual gambling on his own team, even to win, was the main sin. He was the manager, therefore he had inside info on who was going to play for both teams on a given day. Here's the scenario: He holds his best hitter and his closer out of a game for a "rest." He doesn't bet on that game. The next day, when his #1 pitcher is pitching (I'll even assume it's on normal rest, he puts both the hitter and the closer in a game where the other team's #5 starter is on the mound and their closer is tried from four straight games pitching the 9th inning and maybe even the 8th. The odds are more in his team's favor than usual - and he had something to do with making that happen. Did he guarantee that his team would win? No, but he tilted the odds and bet accordingly. 100% not cool.

Thee was and is nothing new about this. Considering how clear it was for players or managers to have anything to do with gamblers, especially when your team is involved (the 1919 Black Sox damn near killed the game and it took Babe Ruth and the end of the dead ball to bring it back), he was beyond stupid to do it and beyond arrogant to assume he would get away with it. He earned a major ban for that stupidity and arrogance alone.

Having said that, he was given a lifetime ban from baseball and the HoF followed suit. He has no served his suspension, so he should now be eligible fo0r consideration by the HoF Veterans Committee. But it's up to them to decide whether to induct or not.

[marciero]

Its always been more taboo in baseball because of the Black Sox scandal. I've been reading "When Pride Still Mattered", a Vince Lombardi biography. Hall of Famers Paul Hornung and Alex Keras both bet on their own teams and received one year suspensions. The circumstances were different, yes, but still. I'm sure there are more recent examples but this happened at a time of growth for the league and acute concern about the influence of gambling.

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by marciero

Its always been more taboo in baseball because of the Black Sox scandal. I've been reading "When Pride Still Mattered", a Vince Lombardi biography. Hall of Famers Paul Hornung and Alex Keras both bet on their own teams and received one year suspensions. [snip]

The local Cincinnati reporter who covered Rose BITD said Tuesday that Rose would have gotten a year suspension if he had apologized at the time, that was what he was hearing from MLB staffers when the gambling charges were announced.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by sg8357

The local Cincinnati reporter who covered Rose BITD said Tuesday that Rose would have gotten a year suspension if he had apologized at the time, that was what he was hearing from MLB staffers when the gambling charges were announced.

Okay. Shame that didnt happen. And I do note that in Hornung's case, he immediately admitted guilt and was very contrite.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Well while we’re on pro athlete gambling, there’s the theory that Michael Jordan’s first retirement, when he played minor league baseball, was forced by David Stern because of MJ’s gambling.

[charliedid]

Baller

[Spinner]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

The former Reds broadcaster Marty Brennaman and I were in Rose's office in 1987 when Rose was on a phone call with his bookie.

I am not making this up. He was not betting on baseball, but on horses. Still, it was weird that he was on the call while a strange baseball writer from the Bay Area was sitting across his desk.

Now that's a story ...

[makoti]

Originally Posted by quacker2000

"Suggest you drop it" ... I guess I struck a nerve!

In any case it seems I'll "drop it" like this. Turns out the MLB and rule 21 aren't even the limiting factor for getting Pete in the HOF since the HOF operates independently, and could put him on the ballot if they wanted to. So if it isn't ~technically~ the rules and the continued threat to the integrity of the game that's keeping him out then what is it?

I find it amusing that you don't think the HoF shares MLB's stance on things. You really think the guys who run the Hall don't care about the one, drop dead rule in baseball?

Again, if you don't understand the reason, you can't really discuss it.

[Mr. Pink]

I used to live in Saratoga Springs, and after my second HOF visit, I came up with what I still think is a great idea, since the HOF is so conservative and boring. The Alternative HOF. (Maybe a different name). It would be a bar, of course. Cage match fights between Yankee/Sox fans Friday night. I'd get a model maker to make a life sized replica of Ted William's head and put it in a clear cylinder as the centerpiece of the bar with fake dry ice vapor. Maybe it will talk every now and then. A special exhibition would be coke night, dedicated to those players who had that problem. Maybe a parking lot re enactment of that disco record riot. I think it would be fun.

Pete was going to be the bouncer. I guess that won't happen.

[marciero]

As someone alluded to earlier, he has in fact served his lifetime ban. That suggests he is no longer under sanction by MLB. So I suppose it is up to the HoF to decide whether to further impose a ban in perpetuity.

[quacker2000]

Originally Posted by makoti

I find it amusing that you don't think the HoF shares MLB's stance on things. You really think the guys who run the Hall don't care about the one, drop dead rule in baseball?

Again, if you don't understand the reason, you can't really discuss it.

Buddy, I ~understand~ the reason, but clearly I think it's stupid, given the leniency shown to many other types of bad and integrity damaging behavior.

And OFC the hall would likely share MLB's stance on things, but the fact that they don't have to, but still refuse to let the voters decide is telling.

And surely we're all entitled to our opinion here on an internet forum... surely!