mixing spokes ?

[kiwisimon]

I'm lacing up a wheel for a beater bike that is designed to cost nothing, using just parts bin leftovers.
I have some straight gauge spokes and some butted spokes near enough to the correct length. Is lacing up DS with 16 butted spokes and LDS with 16 straight gauge going to make the wheel weaker than 32 identical spokes

Forgot : wheel is a 650C, not sure if that matters.

TIA

[redir]

IMHO yes but... Whatever.

So what would happen if you alternated spokes evenly on each side?


Hmmmm...

[Mark McM]

The bigger issue here isn't that you are using different spoke gauges (in fact, it is common to use different gauges on each side of dished wheel) - but in your case, your difference in spokes is backwards from what is generally recommended. In use, you don't want any of the spokes to slacken as they are unloaded in the LAZ (Load Affected Zone) at the bottom of the wheel. Butted spokes stretchier, so they stretch more when tensioned, which means it takes more wheel deflection for butted spokes to completely slacken. The NDS spokes have less tension than the DS spokes, they are stretched less when tensioned, and take less wheel deflection to slacken. So you would normally wanted to use thinner (butteds) spokes on the NDS. In your case you would be using straight spokes on the NDS, so your wheel would be no more reliable than a wheel with straight spokes on both sides.

Long story short, straight spokes can make a reliable enough wheel IF you use a relatively high niumber of spokes and they are tensioned adequately. Using butted spokes on the DS won't make the wheel any less reliable.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by kiwisimon

I'm lacing up a wheel for a beater bike that is designed to cost nothing, using just parts bin leftovers.
I have some straight gauge spokes and some butted spokes near enough to the correct length. Is lacing up DS with 16 butted spokes and LDS with 16 straight gauge going to make the wheel weaker than 32 identical spokes

Forgot : wheel is a 650C, not sure if that matters.

TIA

Not really. Proper and even tension is the key along with it being true, round and dished. Hopefully you have a tension meter..like I mentioned, even and high enough tension is key.

[dddd]

All else equal, a 584mm rim should build up quite a bit stronger than an equivalent-section 622m rim.

So perhaps you're starting out with a somewhat over-built wheel build for your application (loading being the key). And if so, it'll be fine either way.

The spoke holes being closer together, supports the (smaller diameter) rim better.

Tensioning would be tricky for me if there are any dissimilar spokes on the same side of the wheel, as I use frequent audible plucks (with touching crossed spoke damped with a fingertip) to keep my same-side tensions uniform (I find that the torque applied to the spoke wrench poorly reflects the actual tension state of the spokes, while frequent use of the tensiometer slows me down). Different spoke gauges, though similarly tensioned, will ring at a completely different tone.

Depending of course on what spoke lengths you have available to you, I would (as I have done myself in the past) use the butted spokes all on the non-drive side of the wheel.
It was very likely Mark's arguments (on another forum, 25 years ago) that led me to this preference.

[kiwisimon]

I have a tension meter and won't be mixing same side spokes.

thanks all for the replies. Gonna lace it up and see how it rolls.

Frame is a 1991 Cannondale so the ride will be stiff. Hopefully it's fun.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by dddd

All else equal, a 584mm rim should build up quite a bit stronger than an equivalent-section 622m rim.

So perhaps you're starting out with a somewhat over-built wheel build for your application (loading being the key). And if so, it'll be fine either way.

The spoke holes being closer together, supports the (smaller diameter) rim better.

Tensioning would be tricky for me if there are any dissimilar spokes on the same side of the wheel, as I use frequent audible plucks (with touching crossed spoke damped with a fingertip) to keep my same-side tensions uniform (I find that the torque applied to the spoke wrench poorly reflects the actual tension state of the spokes, while frequent use of the tensiometer slows me down). Different spoke gauges, though similarly tensioned, will ring at a completely different tone.

Depending of course on what spoke lengths you have available to you, I would (as I have done myself in the past) use the butted spokes all on the non-drive side of the wheel.
It was very likely Mark's arguments (on another forum, 25 years ago) that led me to this preference.

Tension meter slows ya down, eh? Are you musical? I guess you can tell if the tension is even but how do ya know they are of a proper, high enough tension?
Yes, spoke key 'drag' doesn't translate to spoke tension..but w/o knowing if that spoke should be a 'c' or 'd'...or 'e' or 'f'..Using my kit of tuning forks slows me down...

I've been building wheels almost 40 years and I can't tell proper or even tension w/o a tension meter..Not a fan of speed building either...no time limits..

[buddybikes]

Build it and forget it, things will work

[elvisthehorse]

for what you are doing. even spoke tension is the key. Ive done this before on cheap wheels it works. Not perfect but for training wheels fine. Just watch as time passes.