OT: Paying cash for a new car, tips?

[froze]

Usually a new car dealer that sells used cars will have better quality cars than just a dealer that sells only used cars. Typically a new car dealer gets cars from trades, then wholesale out the bad ones to independent dealers; sometimes they'll go to auctions, but they only buy the cream of the crop; and sometimes they'll make deals or trades with other new car dealers for their trade-ins. So usually you'll buy a better-used car from a new car dealer.

You are limiting yourself a lot by just wanting 1 particular year of a vehicle, you should open your horizons a bit but looking at older cars back to 2009 or 8. If the car is well cared for, and garage kept, the age isn't going to matter, and you can find 20-year-old cars with 60,000 miles or so, and that is considered lightly used.

A lot of people think Subaru is the best, but it really is not, whereas the Toyota RAV4 is a much better car. The Subaru suffers from Engine issues, including high oil consumption that could cause the engine to seize; transmission failures; excessive battery drain; faulty airbag components that could rupture; and Windshield cracking. But they did resolve the head gasket issue with these years so the engine should last 250,000 miles, which is more than most cars on the market, but the transmission will only last 110,000 miles on average and will cost you around $8,000.

Whereas the Toy RAV4's engine AND transmission, both can easily last 250,000 miles which is more than most cars on the market. There are issues involving cheap interior materials and a lousy infotainment system which you can get used to with time.

The numbers I gave were averages, with proper maintenance you can exceed averages, but the Subaru's most expensive weak spot is the transmission. You may get 300,000 plus miles out of the engine but have to replace the transmission two or three times along the way, not a good deal in my book. Also with a Subaru AWD system, there is a problem with tires. If you put on new tires for example, with a 60,000 mile treadlife warranty. At 20,000 you fatally damage a tire, so you go back to the tire shop to get a new tire, the shop tells you, or the should tell you because it's extremely important, that you will need 4 new tires! Why you scream? because the Subaru AWD system only has a tolerance of 2/32nds of tread life variance between all 4 tires, and at 20,000 miles you wore the tread down by 4/32nds, and if you put on a new tire and not all 4 new tires then you will damage the AWD system, and that will set you back about $8,000.

But, the RAV4 had an option for an AWD, it's almost as bad as the Subaru, but instead of 2/32's difference between tires, the Rav4 is 4/32nds and the cost to rebuild is about the same as the Subaru. And you need to have the tires rotated at every oil change to keep the wear equally balanced.

Now there is a way around this tire dilemma. If you call tire places, or alignment specialists some might still have lying around a tire shaver. Originally this was designed to shave rubber off a tire to balance the tire without adding weight, but, since AWD cars have come along they now use it to shave off enough of the tire to match the other tires. Problem is these tire shavers are now far and few between, so you might have to do a lot of calling before finding someone that has one. To get a tire shaved shouldn't cost you more than $35. Of course, once you shaved a tire the tread life warranty will be null and void on that particular tire.

Due to the expense of fixing the AWD system, I would personally have a tire shaved even IF IT FITS THE CAR MAKERS PARAMETERS!! I wouldn't want to risk 1/32nds even!

Speaking of buying older cars, I used to collect classic cars, so I know some stuff about cars, buying certain older cars to drive in the summer doesn't bother me the least bit. About 3 months ago I bought a 2002 Lexus CS430, that is a hardtop convertible, it had 63,000 miles on it, it rides excellently, and it looks almost brand new after I had it detailed, the Lexus dealer did do a minor detailing job but not as good as my friend can, I even get compliments on it driving around in it, sort of weird because I wasn't expecting that from a non-classic car.

[CAAD]

Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape

Thanks this is super helpful. I wasn't sure if they looked at the whole deal rather than parts. For instance, they lower the selling price to make you feel good but lower trade in value so it's the same in the end.

Negotiate the out the door price of the car your purchasing, taxes and everything included. So do your research to see what a fair price would be for that vehicle and all local and state taxes. Watch those fees and doc fees, most are state regulated but I have seen $1k for doc fees in that case just walk out.

If you go in with all the cards on the table they will just move money around to make the deal look good. These car dealers are looking to maximize their profits, and that's ok to some extent good dealers should earn profits for the investment and risk they take on operating a dealership.

[Peter P.]

Continuing this thread.

I've mentioned earlier I'm in the market for a new car but not one that's on the lot. I plan to order the car using Ford's web site.

Which I did, and it sends the build to the local dealer who I presume will contact me with a quote. I did receive the automated reply from Ford, but haven't heard back from the dealer.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the dealer isn't replying because they would prefer to move their inventory rather than order cars.

[jh_on_the_cape]

Well I hit a deer with my car last night. I am OK but car isn't! Waiting to hear back from insurance but tow truck driver thought it was totaled. Back to car shopping in earnest now!

And the deer was not OK.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Continuing this thread.

I've mentioned earlier I'm in the market for a new car but not one that's on the lot. I plan to order the car using Ford's web site.

Which I did, and it sends the build to the local dealer who I presume will contact me with a quote. I did receive the automated reply from Ford, but haven't heard back from the dealer.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the dealer isn't replying because they would prefer to move their inventory rather than order cars.

could be.. I know one of our local Ford dealers is a bit delusional when it comes to pricing as they have those "additional market adjustment" stickers on many of their cars.. they want an extra $5k on the Bronco when they have 15+ of them lined up on the lot (as does the next dealer down the road)..

you could just visit the dealer (or call) and let then know you want to special order a vehicle..

[old fat man]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Continuing this thread.

I've mentioned earlier I'm in the market for a new car but not one that's on the lot. I plan to order the car using Ford's web site.

Which I did, and it sends the build to the local dealer who I presume will contact me with a quote. I did receive the automated reply from Ford, but haven't heard back from the dealer.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the dealer isn't replying because they would prefer to move their inventory rather than order cars.

Did you order a bare bones spec? Does the car you want exist anywhere in the country at this point? If there isn't one anywhere in the USA, I wouldn't be surprised if the dealership is less than energetic about the special order because they probably have a low margin and anticipate a buyer who they won't be able to upsell.

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Continuing this thread.



I've mentioned earlier I'm in the market for a new car but not one that's on the lot. I plan to order the car using Ford's web site.



Which I did, and it sends the build to the local dealer who I presume will contact me with a quote. I did receive the automated reply from Ford, but haven't heard back from the dealer.



I'm beginning to wonder whether the dealer isn't replying because they would prefer to move their inventory rather than order cars.

Any dealership will prefer to sell something on the lot as opposed to special orders. The margins are better and it helps reduce inventory. You can usually get a better deal on existing inventory towards the end of the month as well. This was my experience when selling cars.

My boss was never in a hurry to put in special orders no matter how expensive and I saw those orders go unfilled for months at a time while at the dealership.

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[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape

Well I hit a deer with my car last night. I am OK but car isn't! Waiting to hear back from insurance but tow truck driver thought it was totaled. Back to car shopping in earnest now!

And the deer was not OK.

Bummer. Let me know if you'd like some company shopping. I love negotiating.

Was it a Q7 you totalled?

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

Any dealership will prefer to sell something on the lot as opposed to special orders. The margins are better and it helps reduce inventory. You can usually get a better deal on existing inventory towards the end of the month as well. This was my experience when selling cars.

That surprises me a bit. If a dealership, at some level, is judged on the number of units they move, does corporate care whether those units come out of inventory or via special order?

...of course, the sales manager *always* wants to move on prem inventory. A sale today is better than a sale tomorrow. Finance guy too...he's paying for that inventory.

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

That surprises me a bit. If a dealership, at some level, is judged on the number of units they move, does corporate care whether those units come out of inventory or via special order?



...of course, the sales manager *always* wants to move on prem inventory. A sale today is better than a sale tomorrow. Finance guy too...he's paying for that inventory.

Special orders require new builds, specific options and delivery from the factory they come out of. We would hunt vehicles from our other lots or even other dealerships before special ordering them.

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[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

Special orders require new builds, specific options and delivery from the factory they come out of. We would hunt vehicles from our other lots or even other dealerships before special ordering them.

Yes, we did the same. The Ocean Racing Volvo Cross Country was a rare bird, as was the T6 Executive. Not everyone wanted these...but those that did wanted nothing else!

[Peter P.]

Continuing this thread, and my journey to buy a new car.

Asking for an out the door price via e-mail, the dealer listed "Government Fees" as one charge.

I looked this up and while it seems legitimate, I question the price. Unfortunately, I can't access the dealer quote right now to see if it matches the state's list of fees.

These legitimate state registration fees include: Registration, plate, title, admin, Clean Air Act, Lien, Passport to State Parks, Emissions, and Greenhouse Gas. All are listed on my state's DMV web site.

My question is, if my current car is already registered then technically I've already paid these fees and they should not be due until my registration is renewed; transferring the registration to a new car mid-term shouldn't reset the clock. The dealer said they refund any unnecessary fees at the time of sale. For instance; since I already have license plates on my current car, I could deducted the "plates" fee from the Government Fees the dealer wants to charge.

Anyone encounter this?

[Nomadmax]

The car on lot is on the dealers floor plan, like a revolving line of credit. Ordering a car they don't have doesn't reduce that burden.

EDIT
Just read more posts and see you were in the biz at one time. Sorry for the mansplain.

Originally Posted by C40_guy

That surprises me a bit. If a dealership, at some level, is judged on the number of units they move, does corporate care whether those units come out of inventory or via special order?

...of course, the sales manager *always* wants to move on prem inventory. A sale today is better than a sale tomorrow. Finance guy too...he's paying for that inventory.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

My question is, if my current car is already registered then technically I've already paid these fees and they should not be due until my registration is renewed; transferring the registration to a new car mid-term shouldn't reset the clock. The dealer said they refund any unnecessary fees at the time of sale. For instance; since I already have license plates on my current car, I could deducted the "plates" fee from the Government Fees the dealer wants to charge.

Anyone encounter this?

What they will likely do is collect the full fees and handle your registration for you while they send you home with temp tags - and refund the difference later.

[zap]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Asking for an out the door price via e-mail, the dealer listed "Government Fees" as one charge.

When I received quotes "Government Fees" were listed by line item. I would email the dealer asking them to have the fees listed by line item. Some may not be legit.

When we received quotes, the one "Bundle" that was listed as one line item was dealer installed nonsense like nitrogen filled tires, paint protection, etc.

Since I was not paying for any of the dealer added bs, I crossed that out when I countered.