The fall of Kona Bikes :(

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by .RJ

Sram never had 9 speed road parts, 9 speed mountain parts were 30 years ago. They're still making available their 11 speed, cable shifted road and mountain parts now.

Thanks for clarifying- I thought they had 9sp a decade ago.
The entry level right now is 8 and 9sp for Shimano, so kinda hits to my point that SRAM isnt interested in lowering their prices/spec.


I dont even know what you're arguing about, unless you're looking for Sram to offer parts in a market like shimano 8/9 speed for cheap hybrid bikes when they've never done that.[/QUOTE]
I am not looking for SRAM to do anything. You continue to miss the point of my initial comment about SRAM and the clarification after a bunch of people misunderstood the initial comment.
I dont care if SRAM introduces less expensive products. That is beside the point.
There was a claim that cycling brands have a blindspot and will outprice what many potentially new cyclists will pay. There was a comparison made to skiing gear. I responded to that and said SRAM is clearly doesnt care to offer less expensive options and it isnt due to having a blindspot because it is intentional.

Once more- that isnt me complaining. That isnt me wanting SRAM to change. It is simply an identification of reality- SRAM has looked at the market and chosen where they want to place their products.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

SRAM has looked at the market and chosen where they want to place their products.

100% agree there.

Shimano seems to have this covered, but I cant imagine how thin the margins are at every step of the supply chain to get $600-$800 bikes on the shop floor.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by benb

Bottom line is SRAM has really led everything to march forward much much faster the last ten years. It feels like 11 speed was here and gone so fast it was easy to miss!

Although SRAM is now electronic only for their road groups, they were actually the last to go electronic (after Shimano and Campagnolo). When they were the last to be mechanical only, they took out full page ads in the magazines explaining why mechanical shifting was better.

SRAM may have been first to go with disc brakes on road bikes, but they were also the first to have every road disc brake system they had ever made recalled.

Originally Posted by .RJ

They were first to go to 12 speed and a different freehub driver for mountain bike and then the same for road parts, yep.

SRAM may have been first to 12spd in MTN drivetrains, they were only second to 12spd in road groups (Campagnolo was first).

Originally Posted by .RJ

Would shimano have moved as quickly without sram pushing them, probably not. The new groupsets are pretty amazing stuff though.

This might be true. In the higher end, SRAM is Shimano's only competition.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

SRAM may have been first to go with disc brakes on road bikes, but they were also the first to have every road disc brake system they had ever made recalled.

I laughed, its true.

I still hold out hope that Sram comes out with a really nice cable shifted 12 speed grouppo, even if its red only - and thats likely the only level that makes sense anyways since it would be a niche product.

[Gabe77]

I am very sorry to hear about Kona being in trouble. I spent many happy years on a Honky Tonk and rebuilt it into the perfect sports-utility commuter. My impression about them is they went too far upmarket with models like the Roadhouse instead of staying a solid bread & butter nameplate. Before the road bike disc revolution they were the gold standard of affordable decent cycling.

[many_styles]

Has anyone listened to Esc Collective’s 4 parts series of how the industry go to this point: https://escapecollective.com/how-did...-deep-trouble/


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[prototoast]

Originally Posted by many_styles

Has anyone listened to Esc Collective’s 4 parts series of how the industry go to this point: https://escapecollective.com/how-did...-deep-trouble/


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Yes. It was an interesting perspective, but it seemed like the loudest whiners got the most speaking time, and focused more on the plight of specific companies rather than an overall perspective of the industry.

[many_styles]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Yes. It was an interesting perspective, but it seemed like the loudest whiners got the most speaking time, and focused more on the plight of specific companies rather than an overall perspective of the industry.

I also think that because of NDAs, some who wanted to say something couldn’t. I think Wallace might have paraphrased some talking points with the people he interviewed anonymously.


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[litcrazy]

I found the series very informative from an outsider perspective.

Sadly, as someone who leans steel and retro grouchy, those seem to be the bikes that Kona wasn’t able to over order and thus never went on much of a sale. I say that only facetiously.

The radavist article on Taiwan’s manufacturing sector is a great read as well. As well as the comments, which isn’t always the case.

[benb]

Originally Posted by many_styles

Has anyone listened to Esc Collective’s 4 parts series of how the industry go to this point: https://escapecollective.com/how-did...-deep-trouble/

Just starting Episode 1 but this series seems sooo well done.

Very interesting to hear right at the beginning of the first one that Shimano was basically like, "LOL no we've seen this before" and refused to expand production much and it explains a lot of what went on as everyone else went into a growth frenzy. Quite a good example of the stereotypical Japanese business conservative approach with long term thinking versus the American approach.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Yes. It was an interesting perspective, but it seemed like the loudest whiners got the most speaking time, and focused more on the plight of specific companies rather than an overall perspective of the industry.

Thats likely a symptom of where the industry is - there is no "overall perspective" - if there were, there wouldnt be specialized paying $1M/month to store inventory they cant ship.

[SpeedyChix]

One of the people on the Escape series brought up an interesting point. In the cycling industry once the rep sells in or direct to the shop, the company considers it a sold product. Keeping track of what is in stock at dealers isn't part of their tracking system. She compared that to an outdoor equipment company like Stihl, the product isn't "sold" until the dealer registers the product to the purchaser. The lack of integrated inventory tracking from company to dealer to buyer definitely doesn't help.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by SpeedyChix

One of the people on the Escape series brought up an interesting point. In the cycling industry once the rep sells in or direct to the shop, the company considers it a sold product. Keeping track of what is in stock at dealers isn't part of their tracking system. She compared that to an outdoor equipment company like Stihl, the product isn't "sold" until the dealer registers the product to the purchaser. The lack of integrated inventory tracking from company to dealer to buyer definitely doesn't help.

It sounds bad if you are a dealer trying to maximize profit, but as a consumer, this is a good thing. It increases supply and lowers prices. I, for one, Am not invested in ways that the bike industry can increase producer surplus at the expense of consumer surplus.

[benb]

My takeaway from listening to this (listening to Josh on part 3 right now) is that we need to be hunting deals.

It's really not in the cards for me to bring another bike in right now just with garage space or whatever.

But they are talking about their being truck sized containers of groupsets and warehouses full of extra bikes and other stuff out there that were duplicate orders and dumb supply chain accidents and they are sitting on them all.

So at some point there's gotta be some smoking deals on replacing worn components/groups to new stuff and/or doing upgrades.

I guess my two main bikes are basically sitting there waiting to get converted to fanci(er) electronic groups when the deals are found.

My 2022 MTB has mechanical eagle on it.. I definitely gotta be looking for a deal on the AXS upgrade kit that's basically just dropping the new rear derailleur and the shifter on.

Of course I am wondering if the show is a distorted picture due to the small # of people they interviewed. Is it only certain brands of bikes that got over-ordered, etc.. or is it a wide swath all the way across brands and companies.

[avalonracing]

And this happened yesterday: Rapha North America Abruptly Closes Bentonville Office, Lays Off Staff
https://velo.outsideonline.com/news/...ays-off-staff/