Aethos Super Record Wireless

[rmac24]

The size of the front and rear derailleur battery housing and mech really mess with the good looks of this bike. Not a classic Campagnolo Super Record look.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

A middle class (about 50% of Americans) household of 4 has an income of between $60,000 and $180,000, according to the Pew Research Center, so a lower class (about 30% of Americans) household of the same size would have an income of less $60,000. According to the 20/4/10 rule, an income of $60,000 can afford to buy a car of about $30,000. As a household of 4 is likely to have 2 cars, that would be about $15,000 per car. So a two car low income household probably can't afford the $20k Civic, either.

I don't disagree, but this is called moving the goalposts.

Are you a politician in real life?

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

The whole analysis is stupid clickbait.

Yes.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

... According to the 20/4/10 rule ...

The 20/4/10 "rule" is based on a subjective definition of what "affordable" means. It may be appropriate for some people, but not all.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Tomato Coupe

It assumes auto loans are for 48 months, when most new car loans are 60, 72, or even 84 months.

The whole point of the article is that new cars aren't affordable, and their figures are based on 48 month loans. Allowing for longer term loans (which are more common) completely changes the calculation.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

The whole point of the article is that new cars aren't affordable, and their figures are based on 48 month loans. Allowing for longer term loans (which are more common) completely changes the calculation.

what it changes is the salesperson's ability to get you in a more expensive car based on the payment you can afford.. guarantee, longer loan teams are a salesperson's dream.. ANY financial person worth anything will tell you to go into a dealer with what you want to pay (afford) for the car out the door and 100% NOT the payment you can afford.. extending a 60 month (typical max loan for a car just a few years ago) to 72 or 84 months means that salesperson can sell you a car that's a while lot more money (and profit for them).. while the average new car may be $48k, that doesn't mean you HAVE to spend $48k on a car if that's not living within your means..

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

The whole point of the article is that new cars aren't affordable, and their figures are based on 48 month loans. Allowing for longer term loans (which are more common) completely changes the calculation.

The only part of the equation that longer loan terms changes is that it increases the cycle of debt, making it harder for consumers to get out of financial holes. The lower monthly payment merely provides an illusion of affordable, when all it actually does is provide the the seller the opportunity to make a bigger sale, at the cost of the buyer being in debt longer and having more of their money sucked away in interest payments. One of the premises behind the 20/4/10 rule is that if you can't pay off a car in 4 years, then you can't afford it.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by fourflys

what it changes is the salesperson's ability to get you in a more expensive car based on the payment you can afford.. guarantee, longer loan teams are a salesperson's dream.. ANY financial person worth anything will tell you to go into a dealer with what you want to pay (afford) for the car out the door and 100% NOT the payment you can afford.. extending a 60 month (typical max loan for a car just a few years ago) to 72 or 84 months means that salesperson can sell you a car that's a while lot more money (and profit for them).. while the average new car may be $48k, that doesn't mean you HAVE to spend $48k on a car if that's not living within your means..

There's nothing special about 48 months that makes it the longest term that's compatible with the car being affordable. It's an arbitrary number.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

One of the premises behind the 20/4/10 rule is that if you can't pay off a car in 4 years, then you can't afford it.

Again, it's a totally subjective definition of an "affordable" purchase. There's nothing special about 48 months, other than it used to be the most common loan term.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

There's nothing special about 48 months that makes it the longest term that's compatible with the car being affordable. It's an arbitrary number.

1. I never said anything about 48 months..
2. certainly a 48, 60, 72, or 84 month loan is a number that is not tied to an absolute, they are typical loan terms from pretty much any institution..

As Mark said above, the proliferation of longer terms for a loan allows many (not all) folks to purchase a car (or RV, boat, or ??) they probably shouldn't able too based on a payment they get the salesperson to get them.. the banks love it because they get more interest, the dealers love it (if they finance with one of the options they have) because they make a certain percent on top of what the loan institution gets.. what is one of the first things a car salesperson asks you when they meet you? "what kind of payment are you looking for?" it's not a coincidence that happens at EVERY dealer..

again, if you need 72 or 84 months to pay a vehicle off, you probably spending out of your means.. same as if you HAVE to buy a bike on credit (those that use a CC for points or pay it off before interest accrues excluded)..

I mean, this is just money management 101..

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by fourflys

1. I never said anything about 48 months..

Ummmm ... you directly responded to my post about 48 month loans, expressing your opinion on loans longer than 48 months.

Originally Posted by fourflys

again, if you need 72 or 84 months to pay a vehicle off, you probably spending out of your means.. same as if you HAVE to buy a bike on credit (those that use a CC for points or pay it off before interest accrues excluded)..

I mean, this is just money management 101..

It's not money management 101, it's a subjective opinion of how other people should manage their money. It's no different than when someone declares that no one should ever borrow money for anything.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Ummmm ... you directly responded to my post about 48 month loans, expressing your opinion on loans longer than 48 months.


It's not money management 101, it's a subjective opinion of how other people should manage their money. It's no different than when someone declares that no one should ever borrow money for anything.

ok..