Lowering carbon footprint

[Johnnysmooth]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Sure, a few people buying e-bikes and some buying e-cars WILL have an effect on 'emissions' but unless there is some sort of crisis, as in fuel shortage or something else(certainly not a pandemic) that forces people to make these huge changes..sorry, I don't see it. It's all about convenience, and $ for the vast, vast majority of people..here in the US and certainly elsewhere, particularly in countries where the 'daily grind' is pretty much just surviving.

https://lifewater.org/blog/9-world-p...SAAEgJZf_D_BwE



Considering the huge divides between people right now on things pretty simple, like public health, I don't see how 'civic leaders' do anything to promote bike use or anything like that. Perhaps make dino-powered car use more inconvenient or more expensive...but..sorry, I am cynical and pessimistic when it comes to these sorts of threads.
Things proposed by 'my side of the isle'-thumb's up..proposed by the 'other side of the isle'-thumb's down..even on the same issue.

Another point, that points to 'convenience'..at 70 YO, I can assure you I won't be buying an ebike to go to the grocery, I'm sure I'm not alone.


Perhaps if 'collectively' but the majority of people on planet earth aren't going to 'do' anything...Even in the US..like oh so much else, it's a political football..'They say it?', automatic NO, even if it IS the right thing to do for our and our children's collective survival. Too much money, influence, bribes..all short term stuff...

The earth is in real trouble, no doubt about it but too many people(majority?) chose to fiddle...and argue....while rome burns.

We have to each start somewhere in changing our habits, our practices. There are times that I do share similar feelings to yours Old Potatoe but to do nothing just concedes defeat. I refuse to let that happen despite what I see happening around me daily.

[tctyres]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Sure, a few people buying e-bikes and some buying e-cars WILL have an effect on 'emissions' but unless there is some sort of crisis, as in fuel shortage or something else(certainly not a pandemic) that forces people to make these huge changes..sorry, I don't see it. It's all about convenience, and $ for the vast, vast majority of people..here in the US and certainly elsewhere, particularly in countries where the 'daily grind' is pretty much just surviving.

https://lifewater.org/blog/9-world-p...SAAEgJZf_D_BwE



Considering the huge divides between people right now on things pretty simple, like public health, I don't see how 'civic leaders' do anything to promote bike use or anything like that. Perhaps make dino-powered car use more inconvenient or more expensive...but..sorry, I am cynical and pessimistic when it comes to these sorts of threads.
Things proposed by 'my side of the isle'-thumb's up..proposed by the 'other side of the isle'-thumb's down..even on the same issue.

Another point, that points to 'convenience'..at 70 YO, I can assure you I won't be buying an ebike to go to the grocery, I'm sure I'm not alone.


Perhaps if 'collectively' but the majority of people on planet earth aren't going to 'do' anything...Even in the US..like oh so much else, it's a political football..'They say it?', automatic NO, even if it IS the right thing to do for our and our children's collective survival. Too much money, influence, bribes..all short term stuff...

The earth is in real trouble, no doubt about it but too many people(majority?) chose to fiddle...and argue....while rome burns.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

That's true globally also but again..considering the statistics, it's not gong to change anytime soon. 'People' and too many of them, are the real problem. And all the things needed to support these billions, is what is killing this planet.


Take a trip to rural, anywhere 'earth', talk to a few animal ranchers...propose a big reduction in the things that produce a YUGE amount of greenhouse gases..see what they say(Meat production is a $200BILLiON++ industry in the US..worldwide..MUCH higher)...

WE need this and maybe not even that will stop this slide.

Klaatu barada nikto

Meat production is over $800B globally.

Compare that with global consumer purchases, which are $60-80 trillion (ten thousand times higher) or the US economy, which is $15-20T.

Consumers have the ability to change the market, but do not. The other option is to change the markets and let consumers respond.

It's this second option that is happening. It's possible to do this by, say, setting a price on carbon, but people are avoiding that because they want to understand transition risk. The bigger problem is the role of natural disasters that are climate related (hurricanes, convective storms, floods, fires). This exposure to climate risk is the thing that needs to be disclosed now. That's where the market is changing. That exposure is baked in to all financial transactions but we have a really poor understanding of what the numbers actually are.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

That's true globally also but again..considering the statistics, it's not gong to change anytime soon. 'People' and too many of them, are the real problem. And all the things needed to support these billions, is what is killing this planet.


Take a trip to rural, anywhere 'earth', talk to a few animal ranchers...propose a big reduction in the things that produce a YUGE amount of greenhouse gases..see what they say(Meat production is a $200BILLiON++ industry in the US..worldwide..MUCH higher)...

WE need this and maybe not even that will stop this slide.

Klaatu barada nikto

Hmm, instead of Klaatu maybe the Earth needs this guy, and his friends, to thin our herd.

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Johnnysmooth

We have to each start somewhere in changing our habits, our practices. There are times that I do share similar feelings to yours Old Potatoe but to do nothing just concedes defeat. I refuse to let that happen despite what I see happening around me daily.

Sorry to be such a downer but worldwide, the 'people' ARE doing NOTHING.
China, the number one producer of greenhouse gases are STILL building coal powered power plants and finance 70% of coal powered power plants outside of China.

What's being said in DC these days sounds nice but as soon as congress or the WH changes hands..forget about anything to address the climate crisis...

Meanwhile, BIG trucks are still the number one selling vehicle in the US....followed by big SUVs..and altho they are cleaner and more fuel efficient..they still guzzle and pollute.

People will need to be forced to change their habits, their practices. And unless there is some sort of in your face, can't find clean water, food or energy, crisis, I don't see it happening..

Sorry.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Hmm, instead of Klaatu maybe the Earth needs this guy, and his friends, to thin our herd.

Tim

Deleted.....most here are not ready for my honest thoughts.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Sorry to be such a downer but worldwide, the 'people' ARE doing NOTHING.
China, the number one producer of greenhouse gases are STILL building coal powered power plants and finance 70% of coal powered power plants outside of China.

What's being said in DC these days sounds nice but as soon as congress or the WH changes hands..forget about anything to address the climate crisis...

Meanwhile, BIG trucks are still the number one selling vehicle in the US....followed by big SUVs..and altho they are cleaner and more fuel efficient..they still guzzle and pollute.

People will need to be forced to change their habits, their practices. And unless there is some sort of in your face, can't find clean water, food or energy, crisis, I don't see it happening..

Sorry.

News from yesterday....kind of a big deal: China's pledge to end building coal plants abroad improves Belt and Road's reputation, development bank says

Will be interesting to see how that plays out.....

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Ozz

News from yesterday....kind of a big deal: China's pledge to end building coal plants abroad improves Belt and Road's reputation, development bank says

Will be interesting to see how that plays out.....

Yup

[rain dogs]

@ Old Potatoe.

I went to design school to specialize in eco-design. I did a masters in sustainable development, my business and my life decisions (where i live, car usage, buying, diet etc) all revolve around having to believe it's possible and being optimistic, BUT I will give you this, my optimism has really taken a hit based on how we've responded to this pandemic. So I understand you, I mean, I've always understood people feeling there's little hope, but hey, sometimes I feel it too.

However, and again, if the sign says bridge out ahead... do you just keep going? full gas? When do we change our path?

I hope I'm not doing it just for selfish or self-important reasons, but I'd like to at least know I really tried. I truly believe it's brought me to a better life than it has sacrifices on the whole. But, yeah, it's not always easy riding into a headwind, especially when you see how we've, or to a greater extent our "leaders" have handled the last 20ish months.

To the OP. Who cares what exact % difference you're going to make, at least you're on a bike, fighting the good fight. At least it's one more mile by bicycle.. then go get that next mile...then the next.

[redir]

When I was young I got my degree in Geology because I wanted to try and help solve some of these problems and lo and behold I went to go work for an energy company

But I soon came to realize that we do not have a problem with Geology, Climatology, Physics, or any of the earth sciences when it comes to solving these problems with climate change. What we have is a psychology and a sociological problem. Probably could throw in economic science well. It's an issue with the social sciences. And I can tell ya, that aint gonna change. So us Gen Xrs and probably our children will be just fine but there is an extinction coming.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

@ Old Potatoe.

I went to design school to specialize in eco-design. I did a masters in sustainable development, my business and my life decisions (where i live, car usage, buying, diet etc) all revolve around having to believe it's possible and being optimistic, BUT I will give you this, my optimism has really taken a hit based on how we've responded to this pandemic. So I understand you, I mean, I've always understood people feeling there's little hope, but hey, sometimes I feel it too.

However, and again, if the sign says bridge out ahead... do you just keep going? full gas? When do we change our path?

I hope I'm not doing it just for selfish or self-important reasons, but I'd like to at least know I really tried. I truly believe it's brought me to a better life than it has sacrifices on the whole. But, yeah, it's not always easy riding into a headwind, especially when you see how we've, or to a greater extent our "leaders" have handled the last 20ish months.

To the OP. Who cares what exact % difference you're going to make, at least you're on a bike, fighting the good fight. At least it's one more mile by bicycle.. then go get that next mile...then the next.

I agree that Mother Earth is in deep trouble. The eco brainiacs say 1.5 degrees C temp ride is the tipping point..we are already there..and some predict unless things change DRASTICALLY, RIGHt NOW..we are looking at 2-3 degree temp rise by 2040 or so. That puts lots of Florida and other places, like inhabited islands, under water. Until the water is lapping at the front door of the governor(in Florida), nothing will happen...and considering who's sitting in the FL big chair, maybe not even then.

So, yup, here in my little bubble of the republic of boulder, I will try to 'fight the good fight', but even here, in the republic..it's sometimes hard to get around the WholeFoods parking lot because of the gigantic trucks parked there with their gigantic rear ends sticking out.

I got no answers, but remain pessimistic and cynical. sorry..

I'm watching a series, 'Y, the Last Man Sanding'..the world is falling apart, and 'some' are concerned about some of the survivor's 'political affiliations'..as if that makes any difference..A slice of reality, IMHO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_j8W-SDefU

[DHallerman]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

A handful of corporations are responsible for the overwhelming majority of greenhouse gas emissions and are actively invested into shifting blame onto the average citizen. Enough hand wringing and tsk-tsking other people over their well intentioned personal choices.

This ^^ needs to be repeated, and repeated. And repeated.

We individuals cannot be the main solutions to our fossil fuel created disasters, unless our societies can undercut blind corporate greed and offer alternatives to the world’s damned-car life.

Example: our nearest supermarket is a little more than a mile away, perfect for shopping by bike (e or not-e), except the only road there has no shoulder and fast cars and is not really safe for cycling. Sorry, I don’t feel like extreme deadly thrills should be required to shop by bike.

Example: sure, electric cars are better than internal combustion, but until the infrastructure for charging them is as developed as that for gasoline, many people cannot buy them. Which keeps their prices higher too.

Dave, who notes how in certain religious thought the devil’s biggest deceit is making people think the devil doesn’t exist

[NHAero]

One of my favorite novels of all time is Animal Dreams by Barbara Kingsolver. In it, one sister doing something good but risky tells the other sister:

“What keeps you going isn't some fine destination but just the road you're on, and the fact that you know how to drive. You keep your eyes open, you see this damned-to-hell world you got born into, and you ask yourself, 'What life can I live that will let me breathe in & out and love somebody or something and not run off screaming into the woods?”

I've also had a 40+ year work life dedicated to eco-design, of buildings. Did things get worse environmentally while I was plying my trade? Absolutely yes. Does that mean I shouldn't try? Absolutely no. Our house is powered by the sun and so is our primary car. We hardly ever fly, even pre-pandemic. We try to keep consumption down and buy good food. Are we living a low impact life? Not compared to a couple of billion poor people on this planet.

I rarely need to use a car where I live, which means I am on a bike almost every day. And I have zero energy bills for the house. So it's not as though our choices have hurt us.

A consistent few of you will of course say that anything that someone does because they are motivated by something outside of their own narrow interests is "virtue signaling". I think that it is rather "hope signaling".

Vaclav Havel on what hope is:
“Hope, in this deep and powerful sense, is not the same as joy that things are going well, or willingness to invest in enterprises that are obviously headed for early success, but rather an ability to work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed. The more unpromising the situation in which we demonstrate hope, the deeper that hope is. Hope is not the same thing as optimism. It is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out."

Originally Posted by rain dogs

@ Old Potatoe.

I went to design school to specialize in eco-design. I did a masters in sustainable development, my business and my life decisions (where i live, car usage, buying, diet etc) all revolve around having to believe it's possible and being optimistic, BUT I will give you this, my optimism has really taken a hit based on how we've responded to this pandemic. So I understand you, I mean, I've always understood people feeling there's little hope, but hey, sometimes I feel it too.

However, and again, if the sign says bridge out ahead... do you just keep going? full gas? When do we change our path?

I hope I'm not doing it just for selfish or self-important reasons, but I'd like to at least know I really tried. I truly believe it's brought me to a better life than it has sacrifices on the whole. But, yeah, it's not always easy riding into a headwind, especially when you see how we've, or to a greater extent our "leaders" have handled the last 20ish months.

To the OP. Who cares what exact % difference you're going to make, at least you're on a bike, fighting the good fight. At least it's one more mile by bicycle.. then go get that next mile...then the next.

[classtimesailer]

Do you use a bicycle to charge the battery on your Motorbike? That would make carbon footprint sense.

[verticaldoug]

As someone said earlier the biggest carbon credit is not to have children.

I think all need to watch Charleston Heston's Soylant Green again. With the carbon budget we have for the world, we need to eat about 7.2 billion excess people.
Since we won't need as much cattle to supply beef, we will reduce a lot of methane production. A win win...

In Time Machine, the humans with technology evolved into Morlocks and the ones without into Eloi.