OT: sportwagen

[r_mutt]

Originally Posted by akelman

For those who might care, I was at the local VW/Volvo dealer yesterday, and they're blowing out the remaining 2014 TDI Sportwagens. There are no manuals to be had, it seems, but automatics are readily available and surprisingly inexpensive: ~$24,500 with moonroof but no nav. The deal seemed good enough, and people here seem enamored enough of the car, that I'm considering getting one.

i got manual TDi with no Moon or Nav for 24,700 in May. i think that your deal could be negotiated even further.

[fiataccompli]

Well, I certainly enjoyed my (far less sophisticated) 1991 1.6 Jetta diesel and it's insanely high mpg. That said, even badges as "ECOdiesel" it was no clean diesel. In a small car, that displacement was fine and I would expect now the same economy could be expected without the same particulate emissions.


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[Ralph]

Originally Posted by carpediemracing

There are a few factors. First, diesel is cheaper, not like in the US where diesel is usually more expensive (around here it's 50-60 cents more per gallon).

Second, European countries have a penalty tax for engines over 2 liters (or something like that, it might have changed) which encourages auto makers to have smaller, more powerful engines, and a small diesel will have some oomph compared to a similar sized gas engine.

Third, really high fuel tax rates leading to really high fuel prices. I think it's around $8-10/gallon in Europe right now. Therefore a driver taking into account fiscal considerations only will look at a gas car and a diesel car and say, okay, to drive 50 km to work I have to pay $8-10 each way for a gas car and about $4-5 each way for a diesel. That whole ROI equation gets really distorted with high fuel prices.

The one thing I wish we could get are the smaller diesels, or if the companies would put the current diesels into larger vehicles. I haven't driven such a vehicle but I imagine that the 1.6 TDI (-20 HP, -50 ft/lbs) wouldn't be bad in our current 2.0 TDI equipped Golf, and it should increase mileage more than incrementally, maybe 8-10 mpg in real life based on the A3's 1.6 TDI mileage rating. It shouldn't be too bad in terms of power, it should still be reasonably peppy. Getting 55-65 mpg would be a nice trade off for some peppiness. Currently we see about 36-40 mpg for a tank normally in the Golf, 38-44 mpg for the JSW, max 45/49? mpg for the two cars respectively. Low numbers in cold weather, best is if we're on busy flatter highways that don't slow down (like Jersey Turnpike, I95 along CT shoreline, etc).

The other thing would be to put some of the small TDIs (like the 2.0) into something like a minivan. Okay, acceleration from a dead stop wouldn't be great, but on a hill or from 20-60 mph wouldn't be horrible. The 2.0 TDI makes a lot of torque, about as much as the Odyssey's V6. Yes, it gives up almost half the horsepower, but to get things going you want torque. I imagine that from an efficiency point of view that holding cruising speeds with a 2.0 TDI would be better than a 3.x liter V6. Again, I haven't driven a minivan so equipped but I often drove a big torque work van. It accelerated to 50 mph really well and sort of fell on its face at 65 mph.

A vehicle like the Honda Odyssey is a perfect candidate for a latest technology 2.0 L turbo charged gas engine with twin scroll turbo and direct injection.....for US market. Composite block like Ford is going to (stronger than aluminum about same weight....no cylinder liners), running off 87 octane fuel. About the same HP as a 3.5 V6 naturally aspirated, more TQ than the 3.5 V6 at at least 1000 RPM lower down the scale, and engine costing thousands less to build. Same engine life with Forged pistons and rods and billet steel crank as diesel. Same or more TQ per L of displaement as diesel, and almost same fuel economy. Far less hassle with US clean air laws, less maintenance, and no stinky hands after fill up.

Agree....small diesel would be great also for US market, and Honda has terrific one they could bring over, but would cost more in short term and long term.

[FlashUNC]

Looks like the AWD Golf Sportwagen is coming. So no R, but at least AWD...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...track-us-2016/

[goonster]

Originally Posted by fiataccompli

Well, I certainly enjoyed my (far less sophisticated) 1991 1.6 Jetta diesel and it's insanely high mpg. That said, even badges as "ECOdiesel" it was no clean diesel. In a small car, that displacement was fine and I would expect now the same economy could be expected without the same particulate emissions.

I'm fond of the older engines, but the current engines are much, much better performers.

In '91 there was a non-turbo diesel rated at 52 hp, and an "Eco-Diesel" (small turbo with constant boost pressure) making 58 hp. You can tell us what you got, but I've never heard of anyone getting more than 50 mpg consistently on the highway, because they had fairly short gearing.

Today, in Germany, you can buy a new Golf, weighing close to 1000 lbs more than a '91 Jetta, with a 1.6 TDI making 109 hp (81 KW), rated at a combined 62 mpg (3.8 L/100 km).

[thirdgenbird]

That short gearing has apparently found its way into more than one 16v gas car.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by thirdgenbird

That short gearing has apparently found its way into more than one 16v gas car.

I had a delightful 88 GTI, except for the automatic seatbelt things. Being of that mental age (apparently I've aged just enough that my first thing to do to my current Golf was not to do the same thing) when the stock exhaust started to go I put on an inexpensive and what ended up being a very loud aftermarket exhaust. After a trip to the Boston area (3+ hours) my friend and I were hoarse from yelling over the car. I can't remember the rpms but it was really geared really short; I'm guessing we were maintaining 4000 rpm on the highway with an engine that redlined at 6200 rpm or so.

On the other hand it really gave me an appreciation of close ratio gearing in a car. Until then I'd only driven economy cars with pretty high third and fifth gears. With the much more consistent spacing on the GTI I felt like I was running a 12-21 instead of a 12-28, the engine never really dropping out of its (somewhat limited) powerband.

When the clutch went I put in a light flywheel. That, the close ratio gearing (which encouraged a lot of shifting), and the relatively high redline made it so much fun. I loved heel-toeing into the turns with that car.

I did the same with the VR6 Passat I had later but detonated the engine after a while. Gave it to a friend who ended up parting it out. His local fire department used it to practice using the Jaws of Life on it. They broke the Jaws on the Passat - apparently there was some good quality steel in that thing.

[fiataccompli]

Oh, I around 40...a little more for consistent highway driving. It was a vibrating mess at idle and pushing half a million miles I had no complaints.


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[Rueda Tropical]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

The Golf R wagon is coming for those who want a touch more power...

http://jalopnik.com/the-hot-volkswag...ing-1660045142

I've got an Audi Allroad. Which puts out a respectable 220 HP from a well proven turbo-charged 4 and has Audi's very good quattro system.

When I first saw the Allrod I thought it was stupid. An A4 avant with a cheesy body kit and a higher center of gravity. But after test driving it the wider track compensated for the taller stance - it handled and accelerated more then adequately and while it makes no sense off road, the additional wheel travel actually makes a lot of sense on crappy urban roads. Painted the offensive plastic body kit to match the body. I much prefer it to the Q5 -which is Audi's big seller in the same class.

The one caveat is price -to say it's not exactly a value leader would be an understatement. But until they bring over the S4 Avant this will do.

[Michael Maddox]

For what it's worth, I'm about to trade my 2012 Sportwagen TDI for a 2015.5 Volvo V60 or Porsche Cayenne Diesel.

It's a tough decision, but with three kids--the 16 year-old daughter is pushing 6 feet tall--I just can't use it as the all-purpose carrier that I purchased it to be. It's simply cruel to stuff them all back there; I might as well own a two-seater coupe. And, since I'm 6'3", I can NOT slide my seat up to accommodate them.

Still, it's an amazing car if you can suffer the children to ride in the back.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by Michael Maddox

For what it's worth, I'm about to trade my 2012 Sportwagen TDI for a 2015.5 Volvo V60 or Porsche Cayenne Diesel.

It's a tough decision, but with three kids--the 16 year-old daughter is pushing 6 feet tall--I just can't use it as the all-purpose carrier that I purchased it to be. It's simply cruel to stuff them all back there; I might as well own a two-seater coupe. And, since I'm 6'3", I can NOT slide my seat up to accommodate them.

Still, it's an amazing car if you can suffer the children to ride in the back.

How does the V60 compare in terms of interior space? Reading autocar.co.uk's review I get the feeling the V60 has less room behind the seats than the current Jetta Sportwagen.

[peanutgallery]

I had a 92 with the 8 valve that I loved. It even had the euro lights, recaro intrior and rear drum brakes? Car wouldnt start when that autoseatbelt would rot thru the wire or the clip got jacked up. Wierd time for VW

Similarly, when the exhaust went I did the same thing - along with a cam and some volvo injectors. That thing would roar and spit fire at speed. 3rd and 4th gear on backroads were lots of fun. Highway made for a long trip with all the racket, my wife hated that car kids came along and that was the end of working on cars under the shade tree

Believe it or not, the build quality and service of our new tdi is light years ahead of the A2's. With all the parts i put into that gti I could have built like 3 about every 100,000 miles. Worse than an alfa, I always had donor cars in the yard. Good times, neighbors still traumatized

Originally Posted by carpediemracing

I had a delightful 88 GTI, except for the automatic seatbelt things. Being of that mental age (apparently I've aged just enough that my first thing to do to my current Golf was not to do the same thing) when the stock exhaust started to go I put on an inexpensive and what ended up being a very loud aftermarket exhaust. After a trip to the Boston area (3+ hours) my friend and I were hoarse from yelling over the car. I can't remember the rpms but it was really geared really short; I'm guessing we were maintaining 4000 rpm on the highway with an engine that redlined at 6200 rpm or so.

On the other hand it really gave me an appreciation of close ratio gearing in a car. Until then I'd only driven economy cars with pretty high third and fifth gears. With the much more consistent spacing on the GTI I felt like I was running a 12-21 instead of a 12-28, the engine never really dropping out of its (somewhat limited) powerband.

When the clutch went I put in a light flywheel. That, the close ratio gearing (which encouraged a lot of shifting), and the relatively high redline made it so much fun. I loved heel-toeing into the turns with that car.

I did the same with the VR6 Passat I had later but detonated the engine after a while. Gave it to a friend who ended up parting it out. His local fire department used it to practice using the Jaws of Life on it. They broke the Jaws on the Passat - apparently there was some good quality steel in that thing.

[Clancy]

I have an 2007 Volvo V70 with 148k. Love it. Have done plenty cross country trips and avg 30 mpg on regular. Trouble free. I've no idea on the cargo space of a V60, but my car has more then any small to mid size SUVs I was looking at when I was shopping.

On a different note. I use a Yakima Hold-Up platform rack to carry my two bikes. Hauling the bikes on the platform rack doesn't effect my gas milage at all. I also have a roof rack. When I mount my bikes on top, I loose 3-4 mpg.

[Clancy]

One more thing.

But, as much as I love my Volvo, when it's time to replace it I'm looking at the VW sportswagen. I just hope I don't loose too much cargo space.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by Clancy

I have an 2007 Volvo V70 with 148k. Love it. Have done plenty cross country trips and avg 30 mpg on regular. Trouble free. I've no idea on the cargo space of a V60, but my car has more then any small to mid size SUVs I was looking at when I was shopping.

The V60 has a whole lot less than the V70. I think the only wagon sold in the USA that's currently made that has anything like the space in the V70 is the Mercedes E350 wagon. The V60 has less space, I believe, than the previous generation BMW 3-series wagon.