The New Yorker article on Grant Petersen and Rivendell

[MikeD]

There's an old podcast where Sheldon Brown interviewed Grant at an Interbike show. The discussion they had about carbon bikes being "plastic" bikes was funny. I think it's still available on the Sheldonbrown.com website.

I think Grant is a bit too much a retrogrouch, but don't like the direction bikes are going these days, taking away simplicity and repairability from the user, and upping the cost.

[EB]

Grant's take on bike history suffers from gaps brought on by his own biases - the "just so" stories he tells are not always just so. Reading his newsletter can be an exercise in Gell-Mann Amnesia.

That said, I am glad Rivendell exists and nurtures the niche that they have created. He is an original and an innovator, and he has found a way to exist as such in an industry that eats its young and old alike. Long live Rivendell.

[fried bake]

Good read and I like him, but friction shifters ain’t happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[raygunner]

No mention of his New York Times bestseller, "Eat Bacon, Don't Jog"? And did I miss anything about long chainstays?

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by raygunner

No mention of his New York Times bestseller, "Eat Bacon, Don't Jog"? And did I miss anything about long chainstays?

I think there was a mention of "luxurious chainstays" somewhere in the article..

[Baron Blubba]

Grant makes some wise observations, but he tends to go too far, which I think makes it easy for people to discard the baby wisdom with the dumb bathwater.

His statement about carbon and aluminum having functional life cycles of six years or less? What evidence is he basing that claim on? I work with 10-20 year old carbon bikes all the time, and if they're taken care of they hold up just fine. Components come and go, a well made and well taken care of frameset, be it carbon, aluminum, or steel, lasts indefinitely.

His idea about not wearing a helmet because the onus is on the driver, not the cyclist, and because we shouldn't 'risk compensate'? Ugh...it's enough to make me not want to ride his bikes, awesome as they might be. Drivers are one of a dozen reasons I wear a helmet, and my helmet has saved my well-being and probably life several times over, sometimes because of people making mistakes while driving and sometimes because I slipped on a wet train track/dead frog/patch of mud/patch of wet leaves/oil slick, or because a pedestrian jumped a barrier and ran into my path without looking. I only have one life, a helmet seems like a perfectly reasonable way to protect it. I put it on and forget about it until the ride is over.

As much as I wish that cycling could be sheer joyriding all the time, I cannot deny that there is a competitive spirit that sometimes itches and that sometimes is pleasant to scratch. That competition manifests internally (race myself) and externally (ride with others). I have no desire to beat other people down on a bike, but I do like riding fast with other people and trying to ride faster than other people, just for the fun and games of it. It's human nature, and I'm not sure it's healthy to try and 'help' to eliminate it.
But he is right that in many communities and in the industry at large, a tremendous outsized focus is put on racing and speed and ninja assassin stuff, and the metrics of the bike itself and the metrics of the bike user's performance, and that outsized focus both scares people away from riding, causes some people to burn out of riding, and prevents some people from not understanding that there are other completely valid ways to enjoy riding.

I could go on, but it's my girlfriend's birthday today and there are preparations to be made.
A part of me wishes that bikes and their place in the world was almost exactly as Grant pontificates they ought to be, and a part of me realizes that he is often selective and reductive in his pontifications, and therefore unrealistic and wrong.

[p nut]

I absolutely respect what Grant has done. Great advocate in the cycling world and great human being as well.
I’ve had multiple Rivendells and they all rode well.

In the end, the only riding they got were on casual rides with my kids and wife and occasional short commutes. Otherwise, they just sat. I really wanted to like them, especially the “hillibikes,” but even they performed poorly on the trails around here and were too heavy/slow everywhere else.

I’ve now sold them all. I use a Surly for commutes and bikepacking and proper road, gravel and MTB for specific rides, which I enjoy more than I did on the Riv’s.

But best wishes to Grant. I’m sure people will continue to buy and ride his bikes.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by p nut

I really wanted to like them, especially the “hillibikes,” but even they performed poorly on the trails around here and were too heavy/slow everywhere else.

this is what I was trying to think of when I wrote my earlier response (except for the hillibikes, they are ridiculous IMHO).. I've owned 3 Rivs: a Bleriot (new to me), an orange Ram (used to me), and my current Homer (from my Dad). All just never seemed to ride as well as a more modern bike.. and I've never owned a pro-peloton race bike, mostly endurance or cross bikes, many of them steel.. I currently own the Homer, my Anderson (lugged stainless), Serotta Couer D'Acier, SL4 Roubaix, and a B-Stone RB2 (too long and low for me).. all of these bikes, with the exception of the RB2, ride "quicker" than the Homer.. the B-Stone does as well, just not comfy..

I'll never get rid of the Homer (since it was my dad's), but I will eventually put alt bars back on it and the rear rack with the massive Riv trunk bag and just use it to ride leisurely around town or with the family.. and that's ok with me.. but I will always have a sportier bike for sure.. I agree with pretty much all of what Baron Blubba said (and Happy B-Day to the wife, Mike!!)..

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by EB

Grant's take on bike history suffers from gaps brought on by his own biases - the "just so" stories he tells are not always just so. Reading his newsletter can be an exercise in Gell-Mann Amnesia.

That said, I am glad Rivendell exists and nurtures the niche that they have created. He is an original and an innovator, and he has found a way to exist as such in an industry that eats its young and old alike. Long live Rivendell.

I quit reading years ago, I just look at the stuff he sells on occasion.

[prototoast]

A few thoughts:

-I'm always happy to have more characters in the bike community.

-The article definitely makes the riding around here seem better than it actually is.

-I get that a niche brand is going to appeal to a niche rider, but some folks I see on Rivendells don't seem to be served well by them. The other day I was coming down a hill of 10+% and there was a rider coming up riding a Rivendell Sam Hillborne. The bike was set up with a very upright position, but he was climbing with his hands in the drops. He was also pushing what looked like much to hard a gear for him, struggling to turn the pedals. Maybe this is how he wants to ride, but it sure looked like he could have walked into the local Trek or Specialized dealer and walked out with a bike that worked better for him--even for Rivendell-style non-race riding.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by prototoast

A few thoughts:

-I'm always happy to have more characters in the bike community.

-The article definitely makes the riding around here seem better than it actually is.

-I get that a niche brand is going to appeal to a niche rider, but some folks I see on Rivendells don't seem to be served well by them. The other day I was coming down a hill of 10+% and there was a rider coming up riding a Rivendell Sam Hillborne. The bike was set up with a very upright position, but he was climbing with his hands in the drops. He was also pushing what looked like much to hard a gear for him, struggling to turn the pedals. Maybe this is how he wants to ride, but it sure looked like he could have walked into the local Trek or Specialized dealer and walked out with a bike that worked better for him--even for Rivendell-style non-race riding.

So much energy lost pedaling in Crocs...

[EB]

The hillibikes are peak Grant.... or perhaps the nadir of Grant.

[AngryScientist]

I feel like Grant is just getting older and taken the original Riv concept too far to the extreme.

I personally have zero interest in the competitive side of cycling. I also enjoy taking my time on the bike, seeing the sites, taking photos and enjoying myself. That said, if my only bike was single speed upright position bike and all i could ever ride in is wool pants and sweatshirt, I would not ride nearly as much as I do, or could go nearly as far.

I think Velo Orange has created a space that is more of the "Modern Rivendell" with some modestly priced frames, disc brakes, etc.

Certainly a good niche to stick around for the less serious side of cycling.

[raygunner]

Originally Posted by charliedid

So much energy lost pedaling in Crocs...

There was a member of the RBW Owners Bunch who posted about pedaling barefoot and from what I can remember of the post (it was several years ago but so strange that I still recall it), the poster inquired to the group whether there would be transference of aluminum from the pedals into the body via the bare feet.

....And I loved the Rivs I had. I wish they still made them like they used to.

[rccardr]

Grant’s an interesting guy, and like most of us as we age, he has his story to tell and believe. He likes what he likes, and some other people likey the same, so they have their Riv-ness self-authorized. Pretty cool accomplishment, tho, to be an independent survivor in this business for going on 30 years.

Never really drank the Bridgestone kool-aid, but did own a Road Standard at one point. Heavy-ish & a very nice riding bike but it still got passed along. Would be interested in an original Atlantis or Rambo of I was looking for another touring bike, but not enough to sell the one/s I have.