OT-ish: Seattle vs SF

[krooj]

The S/O and I have been in SF for about a year and we're finding that the drawbacks outweigh the benefits and have started thinking about Seattle. Some things that have been killing us about SF are:

* Laughable levels of sketch
* Insane CoL for what you get
* Tourist hellscape
* My allergies
* S/O is a runner and hills are killing her ankles
* Outer Richmond somehow has ZERO decent grocery stores ?!?

We're gonna take a look at Seattle in a month or so and I was curious how the road riding up there compares with SF and the Bay Area.

[mjb266]

Ummm…Seattle has pretty much modeled itself after SF. PM if you want details about smaller areas north of SEA.

[prototoast]

Honestly, in my experience, Seattle is pretty bad along all those dimensions too.

Obviously some things are neighborhood specific, but I wouldn't, as a general matter, say Seattle actually has an advantage among any of those characteristics you listed. Plus the weather is worse most of the year

Are you looking specifically to live in a big city? On the west coast?

[AngryScientist]

Do you need to be IN the city? Seems you can solve all of those issues if you migrate out a bit?

[Faucet]

Re: Road riding. I moved to Seattle last year from San Diego. I knew it was gonna rain…but I wasn’t prepared for just how rainy the winter was. I ended up riding a lot of mountain bikes in the winter and didn’t touch my road bike until spring.

Regarding what you dislike about SF, Seattle is much better (and as somebody said neighborhood dependent). However, the good thing about Seattle is that housing is anecdotally cheaper than SF. Yeah there are some sketchy places downtown, but on the whole the city is fine. My friends have some bad allergies in the spring; worse than they did in SD. Lastly, lots of good flat places to run.

Seattle’s great. The winter is rough for riding, but you find other things to do

[jtakeda]

Can I ask what you were expecting from SF?

That might help steer you in a better direction

Also can you elaborate on “laughable levels of sketch?” Are you referring to smash and grabs or something more sinister?

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by Faucet

Re:
Seattle’s great. The winter is rough for riding, but you find other things to do

Chess?

[mhespenheide]

I moved back to Seattle only about a year ago, so I wouldn't say I'm all that qualified to pass judgement.

To your points,

• There are sketchy places here, too, but not to the extent and level as San Francisco. I sometimes need to ride through / bike commute through one of the larger homeless encampments and I don't feel threatened or unsafe when I do.
• CoL is high. Slightly lower than SF, but still high. Counterintuitively, though, other cities in WA have shot up in costs after COVID. So if you're going to come up here, you might as well go for Seattle and its higher wages.
• Seattle proper is very hilly. As much as SF, depending neighborhood-to-neighborhood. But there are some places that are flatter, too. There are some nice parks for running, but nothing like Forest Park in Portland. Over here in West Seattle / Burien, I can put together a run almost 2 hours long that's 90% on trails that's an out-and-back with some variations (by which I mean that I'm not just running the same small loop over and over).
• I've been blessed to live in some great areas for riding. As a city, Seattle can be good. But it's not amazing. Santa Cruz and the southwest peninsula are far better. Sonoma county is far better. Up here, Bainbridge is good. Vashon is good. But the rain and darkness and general population density are real issues.

[joosttx]

Portland is better than Seattle.

[dave thompson]

I moved FROM Seattle to Spokane 20-ish years ago. While i do miss the bright lights and big city life, I don't miss a cost of living that's near 2X of Spokane. I don't miss the many dull, dull and dreary days. When I lived there I used to tell folks I wasn't tan, it was rust. Seattle is a constant traffic jam. Sometimes I fly to Seattle and have to rent a car. It's like hand-to-hand combat.

I was born in the PNW. I love it but Seattle has turned into a place that I no longer desire to live.

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by dave thompson

I moved FROM Seattle to Spokane 20-ish years ago. While i do miss the bright lights and big city life, I don't miss a cost of living that's near 2X of Spokane. I don't miss the many dull, dull and dreary days. When I lived there I used to tell folks I wasn't tan, it was rust. Seattle is a constant traffic jam. Sometimes I fly to Seattle and have to rent a car. It's like hand-to-hand combat.

I was born in the PNW. I love it but Seattle has turned into a place that I no longer desire to live.

Dave, I don't discount your other points, but Spokane real estate has gone up so much post-pandemic... compared to wages, it's not that different anymore. (Given what we're looking at for my inlaws in Spokane Valley.)

[dave thompson]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

Dave, I don't discount your other points, but Spokane real estate has gone up so much post-pandemic... compared to wages, it's not that different anymore. (Given what we're looking at for my inlaws in Spokane Valley.)

Just wait a little. There's a huge glut of apartments and houses being built now and I'm figuring that the excess is going to bring things down. Spokane is still such a blue/collar town that it can't/won't support the large increases in price. There's absolutely no good reason for current prices here except greed.

Still far cheaper to live here than Seattle.

[2000m2]

I moved from San Diego to Seattle to SF Bay Area.

I didn’t live in the “downtown” areas, but what you find problematic about SF is also very prevalent in Seattle, only with rain from October through June. If you get out of downtown Seattle, you’ll find some great neighborhoods and great parks, but the grey, cloudy, rainy winter is inescapable. I should add that I lived in upstate NY as a kid too.

I didn’t ride my bike much up there and mostly ran. Great trail running nearby. After the 5th winter, I couldn’t do it anymore, tried to get back to southern CA, and found, at the time, all the jobs for my wife were in the Bay Area. I’ve loved it here so far. We still contemplate moving to SoCal, but I think the variety of riding is better in NorCal.

Anyway, Seattle - I always suggest going in January or February to understand the winters, if thinking of moving there. If you go between July to October, it’s about as beautiful as any place can be for an outdoors enthusiast. Postcard beautiful everywhere you look. Fun place to explore.

[Kirk007]

Just don't visit in August or September. Huge bait and switch - days are glorious, produce and berries and crab a plenty. You get mesmerized, and then the other 10 months arrive and you find yourself going ***?????????? If you don't get out though before the end of the next July, you get caught again in the cycle.... again and again and again ; )

Now that's partly in jest but... I wouldn't ever come here for the road riding, and I live on Bainbridge Island where it is better than most places but its a small island after awhile. If you don't mind putting your bike in the car or riding 15-20 miles to get to the good stuff, then Seattle proper has a lot of other things going for it. And given the recent exhibits of the impacts of climate change around the country, as much as I hate, yes hate, the weather here, I do appreciate that we have it better than most places.

Where would I go in the Pacific NW as other options: Portland for a biggish City, although it too has many of the Seattle symptoms. Bellingham, Corvallis, Eugene, maybe Ashland, Bend if you like hotter, dryer, fly fishing, mountain biking and more brew pubs and food trucks than you know what to do with. If serious about Seattle and road riding - maybe out around Issaquah/Fall City, north around Edmonds/Mulkiteo and take ferry to Whidbey Island on a regular basis in summer; parts of the Peninsula are ok - Bainbridge, Poulsbo, Port Townsend. The trade off is that if you like to take advantage of city life, the driving is hell.

[krooj]

I should mention that work is 100% remote for me, but my S/O is a clinical researcher so will be tied to a large medical campus for work. Portland is definitely on the prospective list, but I think a larger city is required, no matter what.

While we both drive, our only car is a stick shift and she hates it. I barely use the thing and we both prefer walking/transit/bike. I'll use my Ducati in a pinch if I need to get somewhere without carrying cargo.

With regards to CoL, we're not hurting by any means, but it does suck when you dump $3400/month into rent for a place with no backyard, storage, or garage and a quick glance at certain areas in Seattle (Ballard, West Seattle, etc) shows listings for entire homes for less. Ultimately, the 4 year plan is to bank until we can put a fat ass downpayment on a place of our own, so less waste on rent is better.