Jumping from Steel to Carbon? Advice needed

[exapkib]

I write this email after thirty blissful miles in the hills on my steel bike that I love--my Yamaguchi. I will thank you in advance for indulging a post full of introspective questions. I really am interested in the responses that this post elicits.

The principle question is completely subjective and rather simple: Should I buy a carbon bike (it would be my first non-metal ride). The incredibly priced BH Ultralight that sold recently in our own classifieds was what put me over the edge--once my mind committed that much to buying a lightweight carbon frame, it has been hard to walk it back from the edge.

The story begins, though, last year--I was riding the Alpine Loop with a friend, and we came to the section of the pass that was still closed to cars. I made the fateful mistake of helping to lift his bike (a Cannondale SuperSix Evo HiMod w/Carbon wheels) over the barrier immediately after lifting my own bike over said barrier. I was stunned. I have told myself the usual truths--the difference in weight (especially for the bare frame) doesn't make that big of a difference, yadda yadda yadda.

Apparently, some part of me remains unconvinced. A couple of great deals here post BH have me thinking about trying a (used, mid-grade) carbon bike just to see how it compares to my own ride.

How much lighter would a frame need to be to make a difference when out riding?

Do I really need a stiffer bike? Or is carbon supposed to be more compliant? Or is it really somehow both at the same time?

If I had a mid-grade carbon frame, when would I choose to ride it over the Yamaguchi?

How many bikes can a person ride at one time? How many bikes does a person need?

Any advice or experience would be most welcome. Thanks.

(By the way--I am not ready to sell the Yamaguchi. Not at all. That's probably the single largest thing holding me back from another purchase. Though, I have seen a few bikes go by in the classifieds that made me think seriously about proposing a temporary (six weeks or so) 'exchange' with some of the good folks looking to move their bikes here. What could possibly go wrong?)

[eddief]

you can only ride one at a time. you need 3 bikes.

a steel
a carbon
a titanium

They will each feel a little different, but if you get ones that match you and your riding style, you will enjoy being able to choose from the small herd each time you ride. 2-3 lbs of lightness can put a smile on your face.

I don't own a carbon anymore, cuz I have yet to find the one that will take fatter tires. I did love the relative lightness of my Roubaix to just jump on and do out of the saddle climbing.

I run 28mm Conti 4000 ii si tires on all 3 of my bikes now and those tires are a big factor in liking the current herd.

[Drmojo]

Like Eric signs off "ride metal"

[vqdriver]

yes, buy it. ride it. only then will you have the answer.
the used market is your friend in this instance.

i can say i appreciate my steel bikes that much more because i also own a great carbon bike.

could you maybe swap bikes with your friend for a weekend?
they may learn to appreciate the character of your 'guchi in return.

[Clancy]

I have a custom made stainless steel bike with a stainless steel fork, a custom Ti with an Enve fork, and up until a few weeks ago, a Sarto, which is a very nice, high end, hand made Italian frame. The Sarto is their stock geometry. I took the components off the Sarto to build up another Ti frame I just purchased.

There are very subtle differences between the steel and Ti bikes in ride due to materials. The steel is somewhat more springy, noticeably. But bigger differences in handling because of the differences in geometry.

The Sarto was the most spectacular carbon bike I've ever ridden out of 4-5 carbon bikes I've owned. Sublime. It's handling was the perfect balance of ease of turning, straight line stability, high speed confidence of any bike I've ridden including my two custom bikes that ride incredibly. Of all the bikes I've owned, I'd place the Sarto number one in handling, the other two tied for second although they handle differently.

The ride quality was the big difference. Most carbon bikes do not mute the small vibrations at all like steel/Ti. The Sarto did this better then any other carbon bike I've ridden and very close to my other two. We have tons of chip seal around here plus poor roads and the Sarto handled it pretty well. It was at the end of long rides that I could tell I was more fatigued.

Biggest difference was of course weight. The Sarto would seem to just spring forward and it was very light riding which I felt climbing, turning. The Sarto was also much, much stiffer in the BB without giving up a thing in comfort.

Each one of my other carbon bikes rode different. One high end bike could not descend w/o seemingly getting into a high speed wobble the frame was so flexy. Others felt wooden. Some so diff they jolted me all over the place.

The reason I say that is with carbon it seems to me you can get pretty much the ride you're looking for within the limits of carbon. There's some pretty harsh ones out there, some noddles.

I've found tire size and quality to have a major influence on ride feel and of course geometry the obvious influence on handling.

With that said, you can pick up feather light frames for smokin' deals, particularly if you are patient. Problem is finding the one that gives you what you want out of it. There seems to be the biggest hurdle. Seems more predictable with steel where carbon can be all over the map.

[Tickdoc]

I quite like the ride of my carbon bike (cervelo,s3) but I don't ride it anymore because of the bb feel and the creaks.

I just have gotten spoiled to the feel of a really well connected bb and solid feeling drivetrain.

It feels very strange now when I ride it...over reactive and twitchy, even though I know it is an efficient machine, and light.

You may not have that experience and instead have a "this is what I was missing!" Experience.

Either way, all is good.

Not sure I would let go of a Yamaguchi to try carbon though.

Can you demo something first?

[Ken Robb]

1-Demo some carbon bikes if you can.

2- Rent a carbon bike if there are no demos.

3-If you see a fabulous deal on a decent used carbon bike that fits you, buy it and see how you like it. If you don't you should be able to resell it without taking a financial beating.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

3-If you see a fabulous deal on a decent used carbon bike that fits you, buy it and see how you like it. If you don't you should be able to resell it without taking a financial beating.

This is my #1 recommendation - that is, if you make the decision to try carbon. Assuming you have a "bike account" that's decently funded, picking up a carbon frame to try out, or complete bike, at a price where re-sell is easy should be no problem. Your goal should be to find something most likely on Craigslist locally that hasn't been ridden much and is cool/unique so you can either throw it on eBay for 10% more than you bought it for (to cover costs), or on here for somewhere close to what you paid for it. Just think of it as "renting" with the transaction costs being the rental price. If you buy a frameset with something like Record 10 on it, you might even be able to part it out for more than you paid for it.

More thoughts later - got a plane to catch

[Duende]

Lots of good advice here. Personally I think the used 585 route is a no brainer. I hope to pick up one myself someday. I rent carbon bikes when I go on trips sometimes. Have had great rides on specialized and treks.. nothing too exotic, but great light stiff nice handling bikes that were fun to try out.

Fwiw, steel can be very light too these days. My s3 Waterford is 16.1 pounds and I wasn't even really trying to cut weight. With a red group it could easily get to 15.

Let's us know how it goes when you figure it out.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Duende

Lots of good advice here. Personally I think the used 585 route is a no brainer. I hope to pick up one myself someday. I rent carbon bikes when I go on trips sometimes. Have had great rides on specialized and treks.. nothing too exotic, but great light stiff nice handling bikes that were fun to try out.

Fwiw, steel can be very light too these days. My s3 Waterford is 16.1 pounds and I wasn't even really trying to cut weight. With a red group it could easily get to 15.

Let's us know how it goes when you figure it out.

Do you have pictures of your Waterford?
Thanks

[Duende]

Originally Posted by Tony

Do you have pictures of your Waterford?
Thanks

Here ya go!

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showth...23#post2161323

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Duende

Here ya go!

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showth...23#post2161323

Great looking bike! Thanks for sharing. Always interested in light steal bike builds. Got my Serotta CIII down to 16.40.

[Duende]

Originally Posted by Tony

Great looking bike! Thanks for sharing. Always interested in light steal bike builds. Got my Serotta CIII down to 16.40.

Thanks! I have to admit though. I do feel silly ranting about the benefits of steel when all the parts on my bike are pretty much carbon. So I don't do that anymore.

[sfscott]

So this raises a good question. What is a good suggested test writing protocol? After 45 years of skiing, I certainly know what to look for and how to test a pair skis to fit exactly what I want. As a new rider how would you suggest evaluating a bike to feel what I'm supposed to be feeling appreciate the differences among frames?

[Duende]

same wheels and same route to start