Strange(?) Serotta Nova Special

[Fat Cat]

I can't find any pix of anything like this to give me some idea of it's age. At any rate, if someone might be able to help me out I'd much appreciated it.
It's SL and has a 128mm rear.
The same serial number is stamped on the steerer tube. That number would presumably be for 1988 if the accepted code is in action but none of the catalog models around that time show fastback seat stays or the socketed dropouts like those on this frameset.
The graphics are sort of late '80s but nothing like the ones on the 1985 Nova Special that I have. And it does not appear to have ever had an "X" on the top tube..
If other pix would help just let me know
Thanks
Charlie

[Fat Cat]

OK

So,any thoughts on where else I might search to find some info on this thing? I mean, someone has to know.

Thanks
Charlie

[Big Dan]

I can tell you it's from the 80's or older.

[Fat Cat]

Yeah. I just don't understand why it is that I can't find anything else that is like it.

[Flinch]

Your fork appears to be the same model/construction as my late 70's mystery Serotta, serial BS564. The serial# on yours appears to be 1980 IMHO, take it with a few grains of salt. I've been following/compiling comments on Serotta serial numbers, and here's a quote from a knowledgeable person:

"We hopefully can now say that 1982 - 1984 Serotta serial numbers started with a two digit year code. I believe that 1985 to early 1990 started with a single digit for the year. "

However, I've seen five digit serial numbers starting with 80, matching the bike construction from the same era, thus I believe that the year-code serial number system went into effect in 1980. There's a Club Special on eBay that has a BS prefix serial number close to mine, and it is also stamped with a "79" on the downtube - perhaps indicating year. Check the side of your downtube carefully - it may have a faint stamp. It has a socketed fork though, unlike mine. Not sure when these smooth shoulder forks were introduced/discontinued, or why they both seem to appear on bikes from different years (ie: smooth shouldered one year then socketed, then smooth...). Could be simply a custom thing.

Mine:

[Flinch]

I looked a little closer at your fork: It's lugged on the inside, but smooth on the outer shoulder. Mine is smooth all around. Also, the cable guides on top of your shell is an early (late 70's-80's ?) 'feature'. Mine is under the BB, so no consistency. Earlier bikes used whatever lugs/BB were available or specified as custom orders.

Also, something is really bugging me about your seat stays. Most Club Specials I've seen have scalloped stays where they meet the seatpost - yours are fastback style. Not at all sure, but you may have a repaint/re-decal of another frame model. Keep it in mind. Hopefully other Serotta geeks will chip in here.
PS Here's a page from the 1980 Serotta 'Catalog' - all four pages...

[oliver1850]

I have at least six Novas or Club Specials and don't recall ever seeing that style dropout, fork tip, or seat stay attachment on one. Most have Campagnolo dropouts but I have seen Shimano. The mid 1970s catalog lists Mavic and Milremo dropouts on some models but I don't know what either looks like. I'm not sure whether any of my frames have that brake bridge, will have to look. Since Serotta specialized in custom frames there may be no way to pin a model name on this frame. My guess is that it's a 1980 frame based on the serial number. I think I've seen BS serial numbers from as late as 1978. There were a couple of different serial number systems later, before they came up with the two letter model codes with the size included - around 1990.

[Fat Cat]

Big bag o' thanks to all for the thoughts !

Yes the fastback stays are way problematic. I find that style only on Ti frames. Nothing steel has them. And if it is a re-spray someone went to a massive effort with the two-tone paint and for what just to put Nova Special stickers on it ? The '85 that I have also has butterfly cable guides.

I'm fine with the '80 date but the socketed dropouts and the stays still don't seem to compute.

The Truth Is Out There ......

Many thanks again

Edit : no number on down tube

[merckxman]

Daccordi used fastback seatstays on steel bikes.

Originally Posted by Fat Cat

Big bag o' thanks to all for the thoughts !

Yes the fastback stays are way problematic. I find that style only on Ti frames. Nothing steel has them. And if it is a re-spray someone went to a massive effort with the two-tone paint and for what just to put Nova Special stickers on it ? The '85 that I have also has butterfly cable guides.

I'm fine with the '80 date but the socketed dropouts and the stays still don't seem to compute.

The Truth Is Out There ......

Many thanks again

Edit : no number on down tube

[Fat Cat]

Fillet brazed, no lug.

Many builders used fastback seat stays with and without lugs. NBD. Quite common actually. Only not on the Nova Special.

[oliver1850]

I checked the bridges on all my Novas and Clubs. Four had the round bridge with the flat surface in the middle for the engraved S. One had the flat bridge shown in the 1985 catalog. One had a plain round bridge that lacked a flat place for engraving. Three frames have Cinelli BB shells, the other three have the shell with cast in cable guides that was used at the end of Nova production. It has a cast in identifying mark that's about 3 mm in diameter.

I measured the chainstay diameter on a 1990 Nova Special at 23.1 mm. That made me wonder if the reason for the choice of BB shell (and possibly the dropouts) on the OP's frame was to accommodate different chainstays than were normally used. I still need to measure the stay diameters of the early frames. I know that one of the Clubs is a 1983, and I have a Nova Series that may be older.

[Flinch]

This prompted me to measure my 1978-79 (?) Ser# BS564 chainstays. 21.2 mm at the most 'round' part, as they are ovalized. Measured 21.4mm x 20,2mm at the ovalized section. Model may be the Criterium, but not at all sure.

Brake bridge is straight round with flat, no engraving.

[Hilltopwalters]

Originally Posted by oliver1850

I checked the bridges on all my Novas and Clubs. Four had the round bridge with the flat surface in the middle for the engraved S. One had the flat bridge shown in the 1985 catalog. One had a plain round bridge that lacked a flat place for engraving. Three frames have Cinelli BB shells, the other three have the shell with cast in cable guides that was used at the end of Nova production. It has a cast in identifying mark that's about 3 mm in diameter.

I measured the chainstay diameter on a 1990 Nova Special at 23.1 mm. That made me wonder if the reason for the choice of BB shell (and possibly the dropouts) on the OP's frame was to accommodate different chainstays than were normally used. I still need to measure the stay diameters of the early frames. I know that one of the Clubs is a 1983, and I have a Nova Series that may be older.

To your point - my Purple Nova has a Cinelli BB. Built in 1984.

[mhespenheide]

I am very much *not* an expert on Serottas, but I would say it's extremely likely that that frame has been repainted. The paint job looks late 80's to mid-90's to me, but welded cable guides above the bottom bracket were exceptionally rare after the early 80's.

Socketed caps for the seatstay, chainstay, and fork tips also aren't something I'm used to seeing from Serotta either. Nor the fastback-style seatstays.

But again, I'm not an expert on their history.

[Fat Cat]

My 1985(?) serial number 5703 with Cinelli bottom bracket and butterfly cable guides and old style graphics missing some torn pieces that I removed