Peter Attia protocol and fitness measurement

[Alan]

I have read his book which is good. See link below:
https://www.amazon.com/Outlive-Scien...ede125eba48e19

Book is worth reading. Of course I liked it as being a 5000 mi per year rider I am doing well vs the rest of his followers. I also watch his youtube videos as well as Dr Rhonda Patrick who Peter has had on some of his videos.

In a recent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpCkJs6DKCw he reinforced that VO2max is extremely important. Now that a lot of people are on computerized trainers most know their FTP and there are conversions from FTP to VO2 max. I did mine and I am in the close to 40 range for VO2 max which per Peter's chart is good for 60+ so no worries there. I do really question VO2 max as the best way to measure fitness. I have friends who have much higher FTPs than me but not sure they are really in better shape as their potential is higher.

I am not a PHD scientist but it seems to me that we should be comparing ourselves to our potential not others. I never was the greatest cyclist and never really raced as not fast enough but my endurance was always great. HRV may be a better way to measure fitness achievement vs potential but I haven't looked at mine though it is not hard to calc if you have the right device.

The other thing that Peter and Rhonda do is take the fun out of being in good shape. They focus rightfully on people who train just a few hours a week and that they need HIIT workouts.

I think I do better with 7-10 hours of riding with hills and intervals mixed into the workout. I ride because it is fun and I like riding w friends and being in good shape. Am sure that we are the exception as we have the time and motivation vs 99% of the rest of people who don't care.

Curious to hear others opinions on this and if you have a better way to measure fitness than FTP or VO2 max etc.

Alan

Link to Dr Rhonda Patrick's video is below. I liker hers as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYdkMmtjBs

[prototoast]

Health and fitness are multidimensional attributes. Mr. Attia seems to be making the claim that if you can only look at a single dimension, VO2 max has the best predictive power of lifespan. I haven't read his book, or analyzed the data, but if I take his claim at face value, that seems plausible. VO2 max represents the body's competency at a core vital function, but it doesn't capture everything. Body mass is in the denominator of VO2 max, and just as has been observed ad nauseum for BMI, not all body mass is created equal.

Still, while there are and will be individuals who clearly are less or more "fit" than you might expect from their VO2 max alone, that doesn't necessarily undercut his claim that there isn't a better single-dimensional predictor of lifespan. It just means there is more to health than VO2 max.

[adub]

Ride 3-4x week with some maximal (vo2) efforts sprinkled in, lift weights 2x week, eat a healthy balanced diet.

It does not have to be complicated.

[commandcomm]

Never mind.

[John H.]

I love watching, reading and listening to Peter Attia.
But you have to realize that his ideas and therefore measurements reflect what he is currently into for himself and his clients.
His bent is health/longevity. Not athletic performance for one sport. So for the person trying to be as fit as they can be without too much time commitment, his ideas may make sense.
For someone who is trying to ride their bike faster, not so much.
I think that many would find that his "zone 2" pace is more like tempo. Not a bad thing if you are riding 60-90 minutes 3-4x per week with no speed goals.
But too hard if you are trying to hold that pace for long rides and also integrate in harder interval sessions.
In terms of measurements of fitness? What are you goals? Find measurements that align with your goals. Might be a power number for a certain duration, might be an amount of vertical, might be hours, might be power to weight. Might even be smiles per mile.

[adub]

When you watch the info that guys (and gals) like Attia pump out it's hard to imagine someone who has the time to keep up with all the protocols they recommend. You gotta remember these dudes are in the business of clicks, there is only so much that they can talk about multiple time a week.

All of them including Attia have jumped on to the bandwagon of Z2, sauna, cold plunge, light therapy and now vo2.

If you're a cyclist or runner you've known about Z2 (going easy) and vo2 (going hard) for 30 years, nothing new here. Combine an active lifestyle with eating basic whole foods and you don't have to pay attention to this noise.

And in regard to using vo2 max as a measure of fitness & subsequent longevity you could use a myriad of other measurements as well that are easier for someone without a degree to figure out- running 5km PB time, bike- 30min PB time up your favorite climb, etc.. Any cardiovascular fitness marker that you choose to measure if you're getting quicker (and then likely losing weight) you're getting fitter and your vo2 max is likely going up

[homagesilkhope]

Originally Posted by john h.

might even be smiles per mile.

Now you're talking!

[Marvinlungwitz]

The JAMA study he often cites did not actually did not measure VO2, his comments on the study are somewhat misleading.

Standard exercise testing used to diagnose heart disease was used and analyzed retrospectively. Exercise duration from the standard protocols led to estimated METs. (Although it’s true that VO2 can then be estimated from METs by a 3.5 multiplier - estimation from an estimation).


https://peterattiamd.com/how-does-vo...ith-longevity/


https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2707428

[Spoker]

If long daily rides in the sun at conversation pace are making Mathieu vdP fly (if I believe the reports), it will be good enough for me.

[5oakterrace]

Attia's purpose is to get folks to 80,90 with vitality - call it pop and ginger.

A lot of what he recommends I do at age 68. Big whoop. What I learned is that if you stop for 3,4,5, 6 weeks - you lose it. I carry 40lb bags of wood pellets up from our basement. I do one bag in October. Barely. By January I can manage 2 bags. I lost all that strength over the summer. That was my wake up call

Attia is really speaking major lifestyle change. Major, every week. As you age you lose it quicker. How many will do this? We have a public health crisis with weight control.

Well.... How many 80,90 year olds do you see with vitality? Not many. It is depressing given our human potential.

[teleguy57]

Originally Posted by John H.

I love watching, reading and listening to Peter Attia....

...I think that many would find that his "zone 2" pace is more like tempo. Not a bad thing if you are riding 60-90 minutes 3-4x per week with no speed goals.
But too hard if you are trying to hold that pace for long rides and also integrate in harder interval sessions.

I was delighted to find this Attila video of him doing Z2 to give us mere mortals who read all the coaches/trainers/etc and are still wondering if we're in the right ballpark. And one doesn't need a PM or even HRM to do it (although they may help quantify progress)

[reuben]

Originally Posted by teleguy57

I was delighted to find this Attila video of him doing Z2 to give us mere mortals who read all the coaches/trainers/etc and are still wondering if we're in the right ballpark. And one doesn't need a PM or even HRM to do it (although they may help quantify progress)

Huh. If that's Z2, then I must be doing a lot of Z1 on the trainer. I don't get wrapped around the axle with that stuff, but I thought that Z2 was supposed to allow a more relaxed conversation.

The Marlboro hat is either awesome or insane, not sure which.

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by reuben

Huh. If that's Z2, then I must be doing a lot of Z1 on the trainer. I don't get wrapped around the axle with that stuff, but I thought that Z2 was supposed to allow a more relaxed conversation.

The Marlboro hat is either awesome or insane, not sure which.

Haven't watched the video, but Z2 is pretty easy to define.



Attia is very smart but I always saw his videos as going incredibly deep, narrow and tending toward obscure. It resonates with his audience, so kudos.

To the original question. From a training perspective, VO2Max has some relevance to the way I train as power at VO2Max is a reasonably practical limiter on threshold... but if what I just said makes no sense to you.... then you can look at the number, smile and then move on.

I think, like you realise, Attia's prime audience is men who haven't taken the best care of themselves and are now are hitting the stage in life where mortality becomes real. And it sounds like you're taking care of yourself, so pat yourself on the back and keep on keeping on

[reuben]

Well, I thought there were originally 4 zones, then 5 a few years later. I guess now we're up to 7.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by reuben

Well, I thought there were originally 4 zones, then 5 a few years later. I guess now we're up to 7.

Those are what im familiar with rewinding to my racing years > 10 years ago.

Agree z2 should not encourage relaxed conversations. That is recovery or z1.