Campy 11 speed, need lower gears, mass confusion

[Flinch]

OK, here's the deal. I've got a pre 2015 Chorus 11 speed drivetrain, 12-27 cassette, 50/34 crank rings. No bueno on hills. I want to stick with the 11 speed shifters, and have read a lot of threads that discuss what swaps with which: (no it doesn't, yes it does, no it doesn't etc.), and always devolves for some reason into Potenza vs Centaur. No one has asked if there are pre-2015 long cage rear Ds?

So, what is the easiest way to get a 34 to 36t cassette into the mix, keeping the 11 speed STIs and cranks? I've heard that you can:
1. Use a Shimano 11 speed cassette
2. Use a Shimano 9, 10 speed rear derailleur (I've got a 6700 Ultegra...It won't work! Yes it will!)
3. Use a Chorus 10 speed long cage 2010 rear D
4. Pre 2015 and 2015+ derailleurs work fine with the rest of the drivetrain.
5. Pre 2015 and 2015+ derailleurs won't work fine with the rest of the drivetrain.
6. Find an unobtainium Athena long cage rear D (There's two incompatible versions! No there isn't!)

Could some kind soul gently lead me to nirvana, go ahead and pretend that I'm dumb (easy!), and give me the ultimate truth to the Campy Universe?

Ooo, gotta go - here comes the nice nurse - it's pudding Wednesday at the home!

[robertbb]

I can't talk to the combination of 10 speed stuff with 11 speed stuff but can say with utmost certainty:

11 speed 2015+ is not backwards compatible with generations 1 or 2 of 11 speed (2015+ was gen 3).

11 speed power shift and ultra shift are not compatible* (return spring on the RD's are different). Don't mix Potenza or Athena with C/R/SR.

*the "long arm" front derailleurs, which are found in 11 speed gen 2 and 2015+ groups are all interchangeable.

Medium cage is labelled 29-32 only, but works perfectly with smaller cassettes down to 25. Will be sloppy with 23.

[jtakeda]

11-36 cassette will shifter just fine if you have the mid cage rear der.

Ill admit my bike has 46/30 cranks though so Im not sure if youll max out with the compact gearing.

If you want to get an idea of what I just did to my campy 11 speed a couple days ago this will give you a chuckle


Thats deore xt RD to an 11-40 cassette with campy drivetrain

[maslow]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

11-36 cassette will shifter just fine if you have the mid cage rear der.

Ill admit my bike has 46/30 cranks though so Im not sure if youll max out with the compact gearing.

If you want to get an idea of what I just did to my campy 11 speed a couple days ago this will give you a chuckle


Thats deore xt RD to an 11-40 cassette with campy drivetrain

That thing rocks! in class of it's own. Is it a 29er mtb frame or 700c gravel type?

In the past I've set up the wife's bike with a Chorus +2015 medium cage and 11spd shimano ultegra 11-32 cassette. That was with a 50/34 chainset and later on a Sugino OX901 46/30. Both set ups shifted perfectly.

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by maslow

That thing rocks! in class of it's own. Is it a 29er mtb frame or 700c gravel type?

In the past I've set up the wife's bike with a Chorus +2015 medium cage and 11spd shimano ultegra 11-32 cassette. That was with a 50/34 chainset and later on a Sugino OX901 46/30. Both set ups shifted perfectly.

This is a 700c gravel frame. I originally built it with Chorus 11 and a chorus mid cage RD 46/30 and 11-36 cassette. That gearing was perfectly fine for me when I was in bike messenger shape but now that I dont ride a bike for work im finding I need some extra help up the steep unpaved roads here.

[caneye]

I've got the same Chorus pre-2015 groupset as the OP. It has a short cage Chorus RD. Currently limited to running 28T cassette.

Am I right to think if I want to do this incrementally, instead of buying a new crankset ..

1. Install a Roadlink + chain length .. which should increase ability to handle up to 32T cassette

2. Install a Roadlink + modify to Medium cage + chain length .. which should increase it to support 36T ?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by caneye

I've got the same Chorus pre-2015 groupset as the OP. It has a short cage Chorus RD. Currently limited to running 28T cassette.

Am I right to think if I want to do this incrementally, instead of buying a new crankset ..

1. Install a Roadlink + chain length .. which should increase ability to handle up to 32T cassette

2. Install a Roadlink + modify to Medium cage + chain length .. which should increase it to support 36T ?

Depending on your rig, just proper chain length 'might' work with a 32t biggest cog.

[Ali-Pacha]

From my experience, Athena 11 as well as Chorus 11 post 2015 have absolutely no issues with 11-32 cassette, would it be Centaur 11s or Shimano 11s. Of course no issue at all with Centaur 11s RD, but derailleur ratio is mutually exclusive to Centaur 11s shifters.

[glepore]

Originally Posted by caneye

I've got the same Chorus pre-2015 groupset as the OP. It has a short cage Chorus RD. Currently limited to running 28T cassette.

Am I right to think if I want to do this incrementally, instead of buying a new crankset ..

1. Install a Roadlink + chain length .. which should increase ability to handle up to 32T cassette

2. Install a Roadlink + modify to Medium cage + chain length .. which should increase it to support 36T ?

Agree with Spud. 32 likely works even without the Roadlink. I needed one with EPS because it lacks a b screw, and the upper jockey interfered with the 32. Chain length needs to be spot on, and it'll still exceed der capacity so likely either the big/big or small/small are unusable. I opted for the later as it won't rip the derailleur off if you hit it accidentally, and I rarely use the that end of the cassette in the 34.
The 36? Might be a reach even with a medium cage, but no experience there.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Depending on your rig, just proper chain length 'might' work with a 32t biggest cog.

Originally Posted by glepore

Agree with Spud. 32 likely works even without the Roadlink..... Chain length needs to be spot on, and it'll still exceed der capacity so likely either the big/big or small/small are unusable.

This is news to me. I'll have to revisit this. I've got Centaur, Chorus, Record, and SR - all with short cage RD - and I'd like to get to 32T from my existing 29T on all bikes. I don't ride cross chain, so that's no problem, but I'm wondering about shifting through the usable range with a longer chain length that would be required. Will have to check it out....

[Flinch]

As a temp fix I installed an 11 speed Ultegra wheel from a donor bike, 11-36t cassette, and blocked out the 36t cog via the limit screw, and backed out the B screww all I legally could. Goes into the 32t fine, and is barely OK at BigCog/BigRing, ditto Small/small, but I gotta watch cross chaining. Yesterday I also installed a ten speed 50/34 Power Torque crankset.

Question: Has anyone tried a 10 speed Ultegra med/long cage derailleur with Campy pre 2015 shifters? May have to do that myself, as I read somewhere that it may work, depending on the phase of the moon and just how well you squint at it.

Have not taken it for a ride yet.

[jds108]

Originally Posted by Flinch

Question: Has anyone tried a 10 speed Ultegra med/long cage derailleur with Campy pre 2015 shifters?

I did this with an XTR RD and Athena 11 spd ultrashift. It mates up to a 10 speed shimano cassette pretty well. Not "perfect", but I don't think it ever missed a shift on me. I eventually swapped out the RD for a long cage Athena and an 11 spd cassette.

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by caneye

I've got the same Chorus pre-2015 groupset as the OP. It has a short cage Chorus RD. Currently limited to running 28T cassette.

Am I right to think if I want to do this incrementally, instead of buying a new crankset ..

1. Install a Roadlink + chain length .. which should increase ability to handle up to 32T cassette

2. Install a Roadlink + modify to Medium cage + chain length .. which should increase it to support 36T ?

no roadlink needed for the mid cage

[Mark McM]

One thought:

If you are fine with your current 50/12 high gear but want a lower low gear, then consider 46-30 subcompact crank with an 11-32 11spd cassette. This will provide a high gear nearly identical to a 50/12 combination, and a low gear nearly identical with a 34/36 combination. An 11spd medium cage derailleur will handle this gearing combination. If your current rear derailleur has a short cage, then you can convert it by swapping just the cage. I've used an 11spd front derailleur with a 46-30 subcompact, and it works just fine.

Of course, you'll need a new crank for the 46-30 chainrings. There are multiple options for subcompact cranks so there is some choice there. If you want to stick with Campagnolo, then there is the new Super Record WRL crank with 45-29 chainrings, which will provide gearing just slighly lower than the 46-30 crank. Or, for gearing just slighly higher than the 46-30, you could get a Chorus 48-32 crank - although this will be a 12spd crank, it should work fine with an 11spd drivetrain. With the 48-32 crank, the low gear of 32/32 will be the same as a 50-34 crank with a 34 tooth rear sprocket.

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

One thought:

If you are fine with your current 50/12 high gear but want a lower low gear, then consider 46-30 subcompact crank with an 11-32 11spd cassette. This will provide a high gear nearly identical to a 50/12 combination, and a low gear nearly identical with a 34/36 combination. An 11spd medium cage derailleur will handle this gearing combination. If your current rear derailleur has a short cage, then you can convert it by swapping just the cage. I've used an 11spd front derailleur with a 46-30 subcompact, and it works just fine.

Of course, you'll need a new crank for the 46-30 chainrings. There are multiple options for subcompact cranks so there is some choice there. If you want to stick with Campagnolo, then there is the new Super Record WRL crank with 45-29 chainrings, which will provide gearing just slighly lower than the 46-30 crank. Or, for gearing just slighly higher than the 46-30, you could get a Chorus 48-32 crank - although this will be a 12spd crank, it should work fine with an 11spd drivetrain. With the 48-32 crank, the low gear of 32/32 will be the same as a 50-34 crank with a 34 tooth rear sprocket.

Kind of forgot to mention that I need 165mm cranks, which I just got. So another new crankset may be difficult to find in that length. What's a source for the derailleur cages for pre 2015 Ds ?