Record 11 Front Derailleur - Kicks out when tightened

[jimoots]

Hi all.

I recently got Record 11 (post-2015) and popped it on a new-to-me Colnago EPS, and found that I couldn't get the FD anywhere near remotely parallel.

When the bolt was loose, it would be possible to position the FD appropriately but as soon as you got it tight, it would kick the FD body out at a ghastly angle which resulted in poor shift performance and lots of chain strike on the body basically the whole way across the cassette.

Additionally, the rear of the FD cage (where it loops from one side to the other) was striking on the chainrings if it was positioned at an appropriate height to shift.

This all led me to believe that there was some problem with the braze on mount.

I tried shimming the FD to get the appropriate angle with some coke can which did improve the angle but it was still a long way from acceptable, so ended up having to use a file to allow the FD to get the appropriate lateral/side-to-side angle, in addition to shimming the FD ever so slightly to give it clearance at the rear.

I would have just chalked this up as a weird issue with an older frame that I don't know the history of, but upon reflection I was never able to get the FD tune quite right on the previous bike that this Record groupset was last on (I purchased the group NOS). It was never an unacceptable shift so I didn't dig into it quite as much as I had to with this bike.

My ultimate question here is - is Record11 a pain for this sort of thing or has bad luck struck twice for me?

Thanks in advance.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jimmy-moots

Hi all.

I recently got Record 11 (post-2015) and popped it on a new-to-me Colnago EPS, and found that I couldn't get the FD anywhere near remotely parallel.

When the bolt was loose, it would be possible to position the FD appropriately but as soon as you got it tight, it would kick the FD body out at a ghastly angle which resulted in poor shift performance and lots of chain strike on the body basically the whole way across the cassette.

Additionally, the rear of the FD cage (where it loops from one side to the other) was striking on the chainrings if it was positioned at an appropriate height to shift.

This all led me to believe that there was some problem with the braze on mount.

I tried shimming the FD to get the appropriate angle with some coke can which did improve the angle but it was still a long way from acceptable, so ended up having to use a file to allow the FD to get the appropriate lateral/side-to-side angle, in addition to shimming the FD ever so slightly to give it clearance at the rear.

I would have just chalked this up as a weird issue with an older frame that I don't know the history of, but upon reflection I was never able to get the FD tune quite right on the previous bike that this Record groupset was last on (I purchased the group NOS). It was never an unacceptable shift so I didn't dig into it quite as much as I had to with this bike.

My ultimate question here is - is Record11 a pain for this sort of thing or has bad luck struck twice for me?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, it does sound like a braze-on tab issue. Altho the front der, post 2015, looks a bit different, the basic cage, dimensions, etc, are pretty much the same with similar set up techniques...height, angle, TIGHT cable, clearances, etc.

[Hindmost]

I had a different experience but it's similar.

I put together a 1980s Colnago Super a few years ago. When installing a regular old Super Record front derailleur it kicked out exactly as you described. Made no sense to me. I asked my local vintage expert if the braze on could simply be bent to correct the angle and he said no way. So with rat tail file I opened up clearance for the derailleur to pivot.

[Blown Reek]

Make sure the lower limit screw isn't contacting the braze on tab.

[FlashUNC]

This set up with or without the frame brace they come with?

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

This set up with or without the frame brace they come with?

Frame brace - do you mean the curved washer? It's set up with that.

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

Make sure the lower limit screw isn't contacting the braze on tab.

No contact there

Originally Posted by Hindmost

I had a different experience but it's similar.

I put together a 1980s Colnago Super a few years ago. When installing a regular old Super Record front derailleur it kicked out exactly as you described. Made no sense to me. I asked my local vintage expert if the braze on could simply be bent to correct the angle and he said no way. So with rat tail file I opened up clearance for the derailleur to pivot.

Yes I had to take a little bit off the tab around the seat tube and then also give the bolt some wriggle room to get the angle.

I'd also considered bending the tab to achieve what I wanted but thought better of it - seemed risky, I didn't want to delam the carbon seattube - when I was seeking out a solution on Google a few had said "definitely don't do that!" so I was glad my instinct was correct.

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Yes, it does sound like a braze-on tab issue. Altho the front der, post 2015, looks a bit different, the basic cage, dimensions, etc, are pretty much the same with similar set up techniques...height, angle, TIGHT cable, clearances, etc.

I was hoping you'd see this thread. I'll chalk it up as weird frame issues. Once I had the alignment correct it was very straight forward to set up. I was using a Campy FD alignment tool (bought it after I struggled on the Time) which made getting height/angle right a breeze and from there it's pretty intuitive to setup.

[FlashUNC]

All the Rev+ FDs came with a brace against the seat tube you can use that acts as a support when it shifts from the small to big ring. Supposed to stiffen up the front shifting a bit.

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

All the Rev+ FDs came with a brace against the seat tube you can use that acts as a support when it shifts from the small to big ring. Supposed to stiffen up the front shifting a bit.

Mine didn't come with that (just checked the boxes, still have all that stuff) but if I put anything in between the FD and the seat tube it would exacerbate the issue - it would kick the cage further away from the frame, if that makes sense.

The shift is what I'd describe as optimal, as is. Very very good, better than 9100 with Rotor rings and equal to 9000 with Shimano rings. In my mind 9000/9100 FD + Shimano rings has always been gold standard so I'm pleased.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any pics of the frame brace device, I couldn't find any images on Google.

[FlashUNC]

Ask and ye shall receive. Was asking because I see a situation where this pushing against the frame might be causing the issue you described.

[jimoots]

Yeah I definitely don’t have one of those. This is my FD.

[Hindmost]

Is the body of the derailleur up against the downtube braze on tab and it won't rotate further to get proper alignment? Humm? Can the body of the derailleur be filed to create the clearance you need? (If you're committed to this combination.)

Good news that you solved it. (Down below.)

[jtakeda]

Can we see a pic? I have a chorus FD that’s 2015+. I can imagine it’s the same design and have no problems

[jimoots]

It's 'fixed' now - required filing of the bolt hole and then the tab against the seat tube.

I believe it was a combination of the 35mm seat tube and then also the bolt hole not allowing the angle required.

There's a pic above I posted of the top of the FD. It's now more or less parallel with the rings (always a bit hard to call it as the cage isn't perfectly straight) and shifts very well.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

All the Rev+ FDs came with a brace against the seat tube you can use that acts as a support when it shifts from the small to big ring. Supposed to stiffen up the front shifting a bit.

Called 'S2' and a different design and not all Fders were the 'S2' design.